Revision date for SOP (Standard Operating Procedures)

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#41
I didn't say review at "scheduled intervals", I said "planned intervals"....back to semantics.

We "plan" to review the SOPs subsequent to the following precipitous events:
a) When the SOP fails to meet performance objectives.
b) When System Audits identify nonconformances, the root-cause of which lie in the inadequacy and/or inaccuracy of the SOP.
c) When errors/omissions/suggestions for change are submitted to the SOP owner.
d) When there is a process/technological change that impacts on the respective SOP.
e) When there is re-assignment/change in ownership of the SOP.
f) When changes/revisions are identified in sources which impact on the design/documentation of the Management System, including changes in: -
-Corporate/Divisional Requirements
- ISO 9000 (or any other Standard, as applicable)
- Policy Statement
- Customer-specific requirements
- Legal/regulatory requirements.
- Environmental requirements
- Health and Safety requirements...etc., etc.
- Any other requirements/guidelines to which the organization subscribes​

No it won't satisfy 4.2.3 b...You have to ensure that you plan to review documents under any of the conditions mentioned above...and possibly others (this list not intended to be exhaustive). The review does not necessarily guarantee that there will be a "process change" (example...a new standard comes out...the SOP is reviewed for compliance...No changes to documentation are deemed necessary...You still had to have the review). They may result in a 'Process change", but a "process change" is only one event which might trigger a review of an SOP.

Patricia
Your distinction between "planned" and "scheduled" is correct, so thanks for clarifying. I think my mistake was in saying "when processes change" instead of saying "when there is a potential need for process change," which covers most of the items you list above without the need for creating a verbose (and perhaps incomplete) list. Once again, I will emphasize the need to distinguish between containers and things contained; "SOP" can refer to either a process or the documentation of the process, and I think the distinction needs to be maintained. For example, one of your triggers is "When the SOP fails to meet performance objectives." A document can't fail to meet performance objectives; it's the process that fails to meet objectives. There's a need to change/improve a process, and when it's done the document(s) must also be changed to reflect the current state of affairs. Process design or improvement isn't accomplished by writing documents.
 
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Patricia Ravanello

Quite Involved in Discussions
#42
Dear Jim,

I know we've gone well beyond the scope of the original question posted, and I don't think that further discussion serves any purpose other than to fuel our individual inclinations to nobly defend our perspectives to the death.

I acknowledge your personal perspective and experience, and respectfully withraw from what has come to feel more like excuse to argue and nitpick, than a meaningful extension to the original issue. While I offer tangible examples to support my views, you choose to verbally assault my input, without offering meaningful examples to support yours, and without examples that might benefit other readers (especially neophytes). After all this rhetoric, I still don't know how you achieve the requirements in the clauses discussed.

My perspective is simply my perspective, as is yours. I enjoyed this discussion when I thought I might be helping others (I know you don't need any help from me). Now I just feel like we're sparring with semantics and I'm defending myself against your barrage of marginally debate-worthy observations, and no one is benefitting by it.

Thanks nonetheless.:agree:

Patricia Ravanello
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#43
Dear Jim,

I know we've gone well beyond the scope of the original question posted, and I don't think that further discussion serves any purpose other than to fuel our individual inclinations to nobly defend our perspectives to the death.

I acknowledge your personal perspective and experience, and respectfully withraw from what has come to feel more like excuse to argue and nitpick, than a meaningful extension to the original issue. While I offer tangible examples to support my views, you choose to verbally assault my input, without offering meaningful examples to support yours, and without examples that might benefit other readers (especially neophytes). After all this rhetoric, I still don't know how you achieve the requirements in the clauses discussed.

My perspective is simply my perspective, as is yours. I enjoyed this discussion when I thought I might be helping others (I know you don't need any help from me). Now I just feel like we're sparring with semantics and I'm defending myself against your barrage of marginally debate-worthy observations, and no one is benefitting by it.

Thanks nonetheless.:agree:

Patricia Ravanello
I've seen this attributed to such disparate figures as Ezra Pound, William Wrigley and G. B. Shaw, but it seems apropos: "When two men in business together always agree, one of them is unnecessary."
 

lynfern

Starting to get Involved
#44
I think the revision indicator must be on the document and indicate the general changes of each revision for QMS documents Control requirements.
 
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