Revocation of TS 16949 registration

L

LenMac

#1
We are contemplating the purchase of a metal stamping company, which has four major and eight minor TS violations. Their auditor gave them a certain time to take appropriate action, and rejected all their efforts for some reason which we are not privy to. The auditor has told this company their TS registration will be pulled in mid May.
The question is two fold:
We are TS registered with no issues. If we purchase the company, move operations over several months to our location, can our newly purchased company operate under our "umbrella", and get more time to solve the violations?
Also, is it possible for the seller to advise the auditor the company is being sold, and get an extension of time to allow further corrective actions?
I am not a QC expert by any means, and hope I've given enough info for a discussion. :thanx:
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Revocation of TS registration

We are contemplating the purchase of a metal stamping company, which has four major and eight minor TS violations. Their auditor gave them a certain time to take appropriate action, and rejected all their efforts for some reason which we are not privy to. The auditor has told this company their TS registration will be pulled in mid May.
The question is two fold:
We are TS registered with no issues. If we purchase the company, move operations over several months to our location, can our newly purchased company operate under our "umbrella", and get more time to solve the violations?
Also, is it possible for the seller to advise the auditor the company is being sold, and get an extension of time to allow further corrective actions?
I am not a QC expert by any means, and hope I've given enough info for a discussion. :thanx:
LenMac,

You could arrange for a preacquisition audit to inform the investor by fulfilling an objective along the lines of:

"Determine and report on the magnitude and difficulty of bringing the metal stamping company into conformity with TS 16949."

Be very clear on the scope of stamping that needs to conform to the automotive standard.

Chances are the investor is looking to use the report as a bargaining tool while knowing what can be done quickly to restart or protect the revenue stream.

Select a rigorous independent auditor with sound business sense.

John
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#4
You'll be doing an Extension of Scope audit so your new acquisition will need to meet your qualty system requirements not the old owners (which ceases to exist as do those previous nonconformities, when the business relationship is terminated)

You'll be a pretty good position because you will already have in hand known problems that you will have the time and opportunity to resolve.

I've done similar audits myself and the previous history is basically out of scope because the audit addresses the present quality management processes and the effectiveness not the past under a completely different system.

Also beware of an auditor who starts out or begins to look for what he or she "likes or wants".... That's a "Bozo No-No". If they start liking or wanting beyond what is actually required you should want them to pack up and leave because they are trying to create their own abortion of a quality system devoid of fixed and defined boundaries and requirements

:2cents:
 
L

LenMac

#5
The current owners concern is the certificate will be rescinded by the auditor prior to our closing for the purchase of the company. If that occurs, there could be a short period of 4-6 weeks where the seller may not have a valid TS certificate. They are being asked for their renewed cert already by one or more of their customers.
The ideal situation would be for the Registrar to extend the solution of the corrective actions for 60-90 days. Not sure if/how that could happen.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
The current owners concern is the certificate will be rescinded by the auditor prior to our closing for the purchase of the company. If that occurs, there could be a short period of 4-6 weeks where the seller may not have a valid TS certificate. They are being asked for their renewed cert already by one or more of their customers.
The ideal situation would be for the Registrar to extend the solution of the corrective actions for 60-90 days. Not sure if/how that could happen.
LenMac,

You still need a plan to merge the systems (and certifications) in a way that assures customers of continuing product quality (see 5.4.2b).

And it's better to base that plan on your first-hand gathering of the facts regarding the health of the acquired system.

Take that plan to the Registrar to obtain a legitimate delay as you also transfer the certification of your updated system to your Registrar. Your Registrar should assist in this a smooth transfer so it will inconvenience neither set of customers.

John
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#7
LenMac,

You still need a plan to merge the systems (and certifications) in a way that assures customers of continuing product quality (see 5.4.2b).

And it's better to base that plan on your first-hand gathering of the facts regarding the health of the acquired system.

Take that plan to the Registrar to obtain a legitimate delay as you also transfer the certification of your updated system to your Registrar. Your Registrar should assist in this a smooth transfer so it will inconvenience neither set of customers.

John
Baloney! That old QMS and everything related to it is past history as there is no transfer of certification taking place. This is nothing more than an acquisition of production and product line that will be covered under the existing certification of the new ownership creating an Extension of scope situation just as if a new assembly line had been built or new product brought out.

All the CB needs to know is that you've acquired production and product that you want to place under YOUR CERTIFICATE.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
LenMac,

I should not have said transfer.

As Randy says it's really an expansion of scope as you merge the acquired system with your's.

Sorry about that!

John
 
L

LenMac

#9
Randy, John,
thank you both for your informative answers. They have helped me immensely. One question remains for me right now:
If we have a signed purchase agreement for the purchase of the company, but the deal is not closed, AND the deadline for corrective action on the violations has passed with the sellers company; what are the implications of this situation for the seller? He already has been asked by a few customers for his renewal of the registration. Could we show the p.a. to the auditor and ask for extensions for corrective action?
(BTW: we share the same registrar)
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
Randy, John,
thank you both for your informative answers. They have helped me immensely. One question remains for me right now:
If we have a signed purchase agreement for the purchase of the company, but the deal is not closed, AND the deadline for corrective action on the violations has passed with the sellers company; what are the implications of this situation for the seller? He already has been asked by a few customers for his renewal of the registration. Could we show the p.a. to the auditor and ask for extensions for corrective action?
(BTW: we share the same registrar)
LenMac,

Instead of asking your registrar for a favor, proactively provide your registrar with a copy of your plan (approved by top management) to expand the scope of your management system in full conformity with the relevant standards.

Top management will then see the need to expedite the closing of their purchase.

At this time of informing them of your approved plan, ask you registrar how they can help provide continuity of certification.

Do not belabor the poor performance of yesterday's company and their inept management system, it's history.

Your customers and the continued integrity of your management system is what counts now.

John
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Q Measurement Equipment Revocation - Looking for a Disposal Form with Risk Assessment IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
M Ford Q1 Revocation Recovery Process Customer and Company Specific Requirements 5
B Reapplying for ISO 13485 certification after certificate revocation ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
Ashland78 Need IATF 16949 ISO Gap Analysis Excel File Internal Auditing 3
T Justification of "Design Excluded" in IATF 16949 Design and Development of Products and Processes 5
Sidney Vianna Job Opening in the USA - IATF 16949 Lead Auditor Position Job Openings, Consulting and Employment Opportunities 0
Ron Rompen IATF 16949 8.5.1.4 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
P IATF 16949:2016 Letter of conformity IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
D IATF 16949 SI 10, External non-accredited lab IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
S IATF 16949 - Summary at a glance Clause wise - changes from ISO TS IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
T IATF 16949 Recording inspection results IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
S IATF 16949 Supplier selection criteria 8.4.1.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
D IATF 16949 M&TE Laboratory scope IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
M IATF 16949 SI # 10: Integrated self-calibration of measurement equipment- Needs for explanation IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
Q ISO 9001/IATF 16949 Audit Finding Question - Document Retention IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
J IATF 16949 Calibration/Verification records question ISO 26262 - Road vehicles – Functional safety 6
D Bulk Materials (Greases) and IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
J IATF 16949 Internal Audit question - Auditor's responsibility Internal Auditing 6
S IATF 16949 Internal Audit Example IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 18
B Remote IATF 16949 audit preparation General Auditing Discussions 10
R IATF 16949 Certification for new site with transferred product--what is the impact with CSR and scorecards? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
B IATF 16949 Cert Expire- New certification body IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
M IATF 16949 - Audit of Remote Location/Support Site and IT IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
O Informational Ford Motor Company Customer Specific Requirements for IATF 16949:2016 - 08 Jan 2021 Customer and Company Specific Requirements 0
B Updated IATF 16949 - Will IATF 16949 get revised when ISO 9001:202X is released? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
O Release of Sanctioned Interpretations (SIs) related to Rules 5th Edition and Sanctioned Interpretations related to IATF 16949:2016 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 0
S Thoughts on managing ISO 9001, 13485, IATF 16949 and 17025 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 33
P IATF 16949 requirement - error-proofing in control plan IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
R IATF 16949 - Outsourcing of internal audits Internal Auditing 11
eule del ayre Documented Information - Periodic Review of Documents? IATF 16949:2016 / ISO 9001:2015 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 34
Crimpshrine13 Laboratory Scope - Calibration vs. Test Methods - IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
earl62 What is the best way to control special characteristics in Control plan? Is it Mandatory to have SPC for IATF 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 12
L IATF 16949 certification costs IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B FCA US Customer Specific IATF 16949- Critical Characteristics 8.6.2 Customer and Company Specific Requirements 2
B IATF 16949 News Six month extension on all valid IATF 16949 certs IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
earl62 IATF 16949 Clause 9.1.1.1 - What is the batch conformance to specification method? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B FCA US IATF 16949 Customer Requirements updates Customer and Company Specific Requirements 3
S Can assembly manufacturing sub-supplier be certified IATF 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
D IATF 16949 Requirement for CMMI in a Global Company Elsmar Cove Forum Suggestions, Complaints, Problems and Bug Reports 0
M Tips on preparing for IATF 16949 Internal Lead Auditor exam Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
A IATF 16949 4.3.1 - Determining the scope of the quality management system - supplemental IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
S Definition of "worldwide" in view of IATF 16949 and Product conformity IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
R Where does IATF 16949 address Process mapping? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
A Document "Correspondence IATF 16949 vs ISO13485" available? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 0
H Remote product audits in Coivd-19 - IATF 16949 9.2.2.4 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
S IATF 16949 - Partial traceability of Aftermarket products IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
M IATF 16949 8.5.1.3 Verification of job set-ups - Do we need secondary check? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
C Industrial scales and MSA (IATF 16949 requirement 7.1.5.1.1) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 30
V Generic IATF 16949 Audit Checklist wanted IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
M Scope of Combined ISO 9001 and IATF 16949 QMS - Non-automotive customers ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5

Similar threads

Top Bottom