Right to Appeal 3rd Party (Registrar aka CB) Findings

[Howard Atkins]

In another thread ( Objecting to Registrar Audit Non-conformances ) the right of appeals of audit findings arose.

ISO 19011 says that in the opening meeting

Practical help — Opening the meeting
.......... the meeting should be formal and records of the attendance should be kept. The meeting should be chaired by the audit team leader, and the following items should be considered, as appropriate:

n) information about any appeal system on the conduct or conclusions of the audit.

Is this told to you by your auditor?

Please can you vote

 

[Chance]

Re: Right to appeal 3rd Party findings

In another thread ( Objecting to Registrar Audit Non-conformances ) the right of appeals of audit findings arose.

ISO 190011 says that in the opening meeting

Practical help — Opening the meeting
.......... the meeting should be formal and records of the attendance should be kept. The meeting should be chaired by the audit team leader, and the following items should be considered, as appropriate:




Is this told to you by your auditor?

Please can you vote

- This was never mentioned.

 

[jasonb067]

Not only was it not mentioned, our management rep. was basically told how hard it would be on our company to go through this appeal process when they asked about it.

 

[Sturmkind]

We have been audited by 2 different companies over the years and the auditors did cover appeals in both the opening and closing meetins.

Fortunately, we have never had to avail ourselves of the appeal process but have been able to help an auditor up the path of mutual understanding and agreement.

 

[Ajit Basrur]

Neither did I hear about this

 

[Cari Spears]

I worked with NSF-ISR for over 8 years and have been working with NQA-USA for nearly 3 years now. Both mentioned the appeals process in both the opening and closing meetings.

I've only appealed findings once. One auditor from Perry Johnson back in the late '90s. They concurred and made them go away.

 

[JaneB]

Not only was it not mentioned, our management rep. was basically told how hard it would be on our company to go through this appeal process when they asked about it.

:mg: Really? That's just appalling. It shocks me. If I ever heard this from an auditor, I'd a/complain immediately to their boss and b/want a different auditor and c/start thinking about a different CB perhaps.

I think it's been mentioned at all the meetings I've been at (many!) but then, I'm also aware of the appeals process.

If a problem does arise, I prefer to first take the approach of taking it up with the CB - ie, the person in the role of auditor's boss - the title might vary in different CBs but there is always someone in this role. I've had to do this on only a few occasions for clients, but have received a very good response on every occasion. Just another reason for choosing one's CB carefully!

The other avenue is the same one open to every customer: vote with your feet. Switching CB does not cost and can be very beneficial.

 

[jasonb067]

:mg: Really? That's just appalling. It shocks me. If I ever heard this from an auditor, I'd a/complain immediately to their boss and b/want a different auditor and c/start thinking about a different CB perhaps.

I was not there, it was a conversation with our M/R so I do not know the details but the auditor explained how painstaking the appeal process would be for us.

So, if we change CB do we have to start all over with initial assessment?

 

[JaneB]

So, if we change CB do we have to start all over with initial assessment?

Heavens, NO!!

That's one of the great things about 3rd party certification to an internationally recognised standard. Think about it: you are already certified. So it is really only a matter of switching provider, rather than starting from scratch at the beginning. The CBs know this, some consultants know it, but too few others are aware of it. (Mind you, you can't just zip off to another one if you've already got an outstanding NC, which is fair enough).

Process works best if you select another provider well in advance of your next audit (whether 'surveillance' or triennial), who will explain the process to you, and then you arrange switching over at about the same time as your audit was due - except it's done by the new CB. (If you don't get the timing right you might otherwise paying for each of them to audit, and you don't want to do that!)

 

[harry]

This is from the web site of a UK based CB.

Rules for Appeal

In the event of an assessment which results in a recommendation not to approve registration to the standard (or at a later stage if notified that a certificate is to be withdrawn) a written appeal may be sent to the Chief Executive of XXXX.

All appeals will be heard by an Appeals Panel selected from the Governing Board. Your company has a right to object to any member forming part of the chosen panel. The Governing Board will then select a different panel. If the appeal is upheld, the findings of the Assessor will be overruled. If the Assessor is found to be correct, your company will be required to pay for a partial or full re-assessment and the cost of the appeal.

Such appeals are exceptionally rare.

Nothing mentioned about disputes (which is the subject of this thread) - I supposed the same mechanism applies.