Role of Quality Manager / Quality Management System Representative

[chaosweary]

See thread: http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=15069

And one theory on managing from the middle here:
http://elsmar.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4725&d=1140726780

 

[Alex Kobzar]

They are just saying " ohh ISO is good", but they doesnt really know what is ISO, im trying to educate them but they resist coz they dont want to be pushed.

What do you expect from them what they are not doing?

Myself I've conducted a training meeting (long ago), I've made quality procedures accessible to the ppl along with a short presentation of the vital information like 7 management principles, process approach, etc.; I've made them scan and sign relevant quality procedures; I am auditing them and they are even mostly implementing the assigned corrective action; also we have mgmt review annually to review status of achievement of the quantitative goals (assigned for each COP with a pesonal responsibility for the achievement) ... are you missing something from this list?

 

[amanbhai]

I have been struggling with some issues at my company and would like to get some feedback. I am the Quality Manager and Quality Management system Representative and we are AS9100/ISO 9001:2000.

I feel that my role is to monitor the Quality System through internal audits and be the representative during Management Review. What actually is happening is that nothing will take place if I do not personally make sure and follow it throught to completion. I have to set up meetings for other departments to work on their procedures, I have to write up corrective actions for other departments.

What I want to know is this common practice in the industry? I am trying to educate everyone that my role is just to monitor not to do their jobs. I feel that by me doing their job, they are not taking it serious.

It is a common practice in i beleive most of the org.
Yet I beleive that it depends on you. How assertive you are? & How do you see your role in that organization?
How do you respond when somone asks you to do their jobs next time?

 

[hogheavenfarm]

What actually is happening is that nothing will take place if I do not personally make sure and follow it throught to completion. I have to set up meetings for other departments to work on their procedures, I have to write up corrective actions for other departments.

I have also found this to be the case. Sustainability is always an issue, since I am the one that keeps an improvement functioning. The improvement is never built into the process, but becomes an additional QC job instead. Mw experience here is to simply do what is right for the customer, while trying to get top management support to change the culture that not only permits this, but encourages it.

 

[juliov]

I agree with Benjamin28, it has been my experience that unless top management is committed and involved in the establishment, implementation and maintenance of a Quality Management System and truly understand ISO's 9K2K 5.1 requirement(Management Commitment), 5.2, 5.3, 5.4.a,b, 5.5.3, and the General reqs for 4.1, and 6.0, top management will see no reason to intervene in the development of the QMS, however, the rest of the workforce will note or perceive top mgmt lack of involvement and simply will not contribute to process ownership and culture change.

Ensure that top mgmt is aware of the above and let them know about how long are they willing to wait for the implementation of an effective QMS. In my experience I have seen that for the workforce will not cooperate unless the top manager has a meeting and makes it clear that all people are responsible for quality and process ownership, and shows a solid support and solidarity to the Quality Manager. The crew will not want to test support and thus will do what they are supposed to do.

Give it a try. Insist on process owership.

 

[JaneB]

It all begins from the top. As hjilling points out, that's why the Standard is clear about the role of top management. Indeed, the emphasis on top management was one of the critical changes in the 2000 version of the Standard.

If management commitment isn't there, then it really is a futile exercise. If you don't have that fundamental in place then it almost certainly cannot and will not happen. And yes, oh yes, it absolutely needs to be more than a verbal 'of course we support it' - there must be actions and they must be congruent with the words!!.

It's really just a matter of time before the system breaks down - the question being will it drive the QM into a nervous breakdown first

It's a situation I run rather than walk away from. I won't take on any client if their management isn't committed. It's as simple as that. No top management commitment = won't happen. It is not possible. And the only 'good' thing about beating one's head against a wall is that it feels so good when you stop.

I''m willing to put in all kinds of effort and time to help an organisation to get, to improve or to maintain their system. But there are better & infinitely more rewarding things to do with one's time than waste it in no win situations.

 

[jerzki]

It all begins from the top. As hjilling points out, that's why the Standard is clear about the role of top management. Indeed, the emphasis on top management was one of the critical changes in the 2000 version of the Standard.

If management commitment isn't there, then it really is a futile exercise. If you don't have that fundamental in place then it almost certainly cannot and will not happen. And yes, oh yes, it absolutely needs to be more than a verbal 'of course we support it' - there must be actions and they must be congruent with the words!!.

It's really just a matter of time before the system breaks down - the question being will it drive the QM into a nervous breakdown first

It's a situation I run rather than walk away from. I won't take on any client if their management isn't committed. It's as simple as that. No top management commitment = won't happen. It is not possible. And the only 'good' thing about beating one's head against a wall is that it feels so good when you stop.

I''m willing to put in all kinds of effort and time to help an organisation to get, to improve or to maintain their system. But there are better & infinitely more rewarding things to do with one's time than waste it in no win situations.

Thank you Ms. JaneB,

FYI. Yesterday i had some talked with the GM / MR and told him this and that, and after that a certain twirl happens I know its a good thing but after our talk he insist everybody to prepare a job description. All managers he insist to do job description, even had a meeting just for that. I know its a small thing only but I believe there is progress at least id capture his attention.Prior to that I am issuing newsletters to everybody, like a daily newspaper informing them and attaching some clippings of ISO presentation luckily some responds. Now GM / MR is very eager on this job description.
Just asking maybe someone their experienced this situation, what do you think guys he is thinking? Because sometimes I cant predict what will be next thing about this boss.
Thanks in advance guys.

thanking,

Jerzki

 

[juliov]

Jane B.
I agree 100% with you. If top management is not commited to support the implementation of a QMS it follows that other functions or lowel level mgmt will see no reason to take the program seriously, what top mgmt fails to notice is that by not supporting from the start the resources are basically wasted (time to implement) look out hidden quality costs! here is a big one.

 

[jerzki]

Jane B.
I agree 100% with you. If top management is not commited to support the implementation of a QMS it follows that other functions or lowel level mgmt will see no reason to take the program seriously, what top mgmt fails to notice is that by not supporting from the start the resources are basically wasted (time to implement) look out hidden quality costs! here is a big one.

Thanks MsJaneB

My sisters name is also Jane, lovely name ,hehehehe! U know Im always walking to his doors, this GM / MR ive been talking about & smetimes I feel he's getting irritated coz I always tell this and that. But again sometimes he is just hearing from one ear then pass to the other then gone. Sometimes I dont know what to do here Im issuing newsletters evryday!uh uh that's everyday that I think I am becomming much of a writer now,then at the end of the day I am seeing it somewhere else.Whew!really guyz sometimes Im getting upset. Are there any other proven ways I can really, I mean really get this boss attention coz as I see it he is always looking for dollars $. I want to show him the $ costs here but for him its irrelevant.whew! am i on the dead end????

Staying positive,

Jerzki

 

[JaneB]

Don't like the sound of it, Jerzki. (And we have gone rather off the topic raised by the OP here.)

Here are some of the characteristics of the situation from various posts by you:

This company has no Quality Manager, I have once asked the management who will be the Management Representative. The Gen. Manager says he will be, but he is not functioning as the MR because he is too busy doing the business.

I've talked the situation to the GM(MR) but still nothing happens, all just ignoring.

sometimes he is just hearing from one ear then pass to the other then gone.

They are still in the stage wherein no one cares, they know their job and for them its enough. They are just saying " ohh ISO is good", but they doesnt really know what is ISO, im trying to educate them but they resist coz they dont want to be pushed.

Feeling just a single person driving ISO. The management wants ISO but dont do anything for it. The management is telling me ok lets's implement but nothing is happening.

And there you have the exact problem.

The only single person who might be able to 'drive ISO' is the top person.

I repeat: It all starts from the top.
That's why the Standard is explicit on the role of top management.

It isn't your failure. And sometimes, realising that there is literally nothing one can do to change a situation is a hard position to come to.

As for what the boss is thinking, who knows? Could be anything from what he's going to eat for lunch to whether he got any last night (or not) or why the figures are as they are... See what he does. And if it's nothing (in relation to implementation) - or far too little - & continues as such, then there is your answer. It isn't high on his agenda.

You can't change that. Only he can.

You might as well be like King Canute and order the sea back. Won't happen.

Bosses can say anything they like, as we all can. But there needs to be alignment of actions with words - 'congruence'. Simply put, they must do things that demonstrate. 'Walk the talk', not just talk the talk.

Talk costs nothing. He can say he wants to climb Mt Everest. But until I see him leaving Base Camp, with his pack on his pack, I wouldn't even begin to believe it. And even then, I want to see him progressing up that mountain!

Look, I feel for you. But wisdom is also knowing when it's a no-win situation. You've got good advice already from a number of posters on this thread.

But if you've tried those & everything else you can think of... well, your choice, but I find beating my head against a brick wall excessively painful. (And I know whereof I speak, I've been where you are. And got out, choosing to find situations that are more rewarding, both professionally & personally.)