Root Cause of Nonconformance Occurance vs Root Cause Escape Paths - East/West Format

[Madeline Mulcahy]

I have been searching to see if there have been any changes to the 8Ds. Recently a customer of ours asked us to add an "Escape Path" to the Root Cause and Corrective Action section when doing an 8D for them. Thats why we were wondering if the 8Ds have been modified to add this "Escape Path".
If they have been by who or what society?

Your help would be greatly appreciated.
Mystified in Massachusettes
(I couldn't think of anything to rhyme with Cambridge)

 

[Mike525]

8-D was developed for Ford by a guy named Dean (I believe). We use 8-D extensively throughout the corp, and I'm not aware of any changes to the methodology. I have heard of an 8-D team determining root cause to a problem, and the corrective action reguired was not "to a degree appropriate to the magnitude of the problem." They closed out the 8-D without implementation, because the CA costs weren't commensurate with the risk. Maybe this is the 'escape' path that was mentioned?

 

[Brenda Stafford]

Hi, I am new to this website. But to answer the question about Escape Point. I am the Quality Technician/8D Coordinator at our facility.

In 1998 Ford redesigned their current 8D system to Global 8D.

With this new Global 8D in D4 Root Cause now includes Escape Point. Escape Point is where in the process the defect should have been first detected but was not.

From personal experience, I do not include the Escape Point on the 8D. I do, however, include it on an action plan and correct the Escape Point through the action plan.

Only one customer requires that the Escape Point be listed on the 8D.

The Global 8D does not address corrective action for the Escape Point until you reach D6 Implemented Permanent Corrective Action and Escape Point.

If you have any other questions please contact me.

 

[Kevin Mader]

Brenda,

First, welcome to the Cove! Marc did a nice job in creating a place for Quality discussions and exchanges. Thanks also for your input here as it essential to the success of this site. See you around the Cove!

Regards,

Kevin

 

[Forrest Henderson]

Visteon uses the "east/west" 8D format. This format includes Occurrence and Escape. Both require root cause, corrective action and prevention.
You can get more information from Visteon STA.

 

[Marc]

I got this tonight:

Subject: 8D's & "escape"
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:58:12 EST
From: XXXXXXXX

"Escape" is an important part of the 8D problem solving tool. It is dealt with under Root cause........First you have Root cause for occurrence (Why did the problem occur) and Root cause for escape....(why did you not discover & contain the problem when it occurred ,and what caused it to "escape" to your customer.)

 

[Marloun]

Hmmm. This has been dormant for quite sometime already but I would like to put my two cents of thought here. An 'escape point' is a point in the process where the problem or defect could be have been detected but was not. As one can deduce from the definition, the escape point is vital as it gives us an idea that our there was a lapse in our system as the defect escaped when it should have not. For example, we have a 100% third optical inspection after the die attach and wire bond processes (transistor production). A customer complained of a field failure and, upon verification, the root cause was a surface damage on the die. From this, we can easily suspect that the 3rd opt inspection was an escape point as the surface damage should have been detected during the inspection. For containment action, we may enhance the third opt inspection, i.e. if the inspection was done by human inspectors, we may enhance it to a vision system.

Regards,
Marloun

 

[AHammer]

Does anybody have 8D documentation? Although I have used the process I do not have any current training materials or detailed process description. I am looking to see whether the 8D approach can be adapted to service processes in the software industry. If you happen to have 8D training material I would be mst greatful.

Regards,
Alex Hammer
www.nortelnetworks.com

 

[Darrell Wenrich]

Are you looking for Training Material for a group, or Material that you would like to use singly and possible adapt to a group situation at a later date. Depending on your requirements, I may be able to recommend or even supply you with some material.

Originally posted by AHammer:

Does anybody have 8D documentation? Although I have used the process I do not have any current training materials or detailed process description. I am looking to see whether the 8D approach can be adapted to service processes in the software industry. If you happen to have 8D training material I would be mst greatful.

Regards,
Alex Hammer

 

[Marc]

Yes - you can use the 8-D problem solving (prevent recurrence) methodology in a service company. It can be applied to any problem in any situation or industry.