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Rules for Achieving IATF Recognition: 4th edition for ISO/TS 16949

C

Cheryl

#61
We are 1 company with 3 small buildings on a single parcel of land. One mailing address, 1 shipping and receiving location. So how do we fight this "site extension" change. Does anyone have a definition of what a site extension is?

Like others this change doubles our costs, going from 6 days to 12.5 days not including the extra pre-audit time of .5 day each site being added.
 
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Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#62
We just received the new proposal from our certification body and because we have what was formally called a site extension, all our audit costs have doubled. You can imagine how that was received when I presented it to our Executive Management Team. The "fecal matter hit the impeller". I tried to explain to them that we can't fault our CB (although they are the ones who are benefiting from all of this). It's the IATF (the Audit Nazi's) who created this whole fiasco.:mad:
We are all dealing with this mess. The IATF tends to solve localized problems with a very broad brush. China caused a lot of problems by cheating the program, so we all get to suffer. In some cases, this new rule might make sense. But, in many cases, it is like dividing one company in half and auditing it like two separate companies...with separate auditors even... really badly thought out in my opinion.

I would encourage companies that have particularly bad situations to exercise their rights as a "client" and write a polite but firm letter to the IAOB, and send a copy to your CB management. maybe if there is enough of a groundswell of grass roots comments, some degree of reasonable interpretations can be brought to this.

Some examples I would welcome would be:

1. This should only apply to second building with significant operations. Not four people doing Assembly.

2. This should be phased in, in an orderly manner. And the first cycle should be performed and completed by the same auditor as the main site, to get it rolling.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#63
We are 1 company with 3 small buildings on a single parcel of land. One mailing address, 1 shipping and receiving location. So how do we fight this "site extension" change. Does anyone have a definition of what a site extension is?

Like others this change doubles our costs, going from 6 days to 12.5 days not including the extra pre-audit time of .5 day each site being added.
Check whether the site extensions have the same address. I have heard interpretations that that is a factor.
 
#65
I would encourage companies that have particularly bad situations to exercise their rights as a "client" and write a polite but firm letter to the IAOB, and send a copy to your CB management.
My terse email to my CB included the statement: "We are Vehicle Transformation Specialists. We are not a paper mill."

My company and I have never been treated like "clients" by the IAOB or the IATF, nor have we been treated like "partners" by the "customers" that required TS, even though everything we sell is of our design, created specifically to solve a problem that no one else could.

But who cares about innovative, money-saving, designs? The most important thing about any product is a well-printed MSA and a four-inch APQP/PPAP binder, right?
 
J

Jessie

#66
One of our plants had their surveillance audit this week, the first under the new rules. The auditor cited them for not being able to produce some test records - a valid finding - but then commented that 'under the old rules this would have been a minor non-conformance, but now it's a major'. She said each non-conformance begins now as a major, unless we can provide the auditor sufficient evidence that it is not. On the Action Plan form the registrar has added a section "Reasons why the nonconformity was not classified as major nonconformity"

I've read the rules, the SI's and the FAQ's, and I don't agree with this. What are your thoughts?
 
R

Reg Morrison

#67
What are your thoughts?
I believe that the IATF is bringing back the "guilty until proven innocent" mindset to the automotive industry and deliberately inducing friction between auto suppliers, their customers and registrars.

In an era where we need more collaborative business relationships, the heavy hand approach apparently imposed by the IATF seems awfully out of place and out of time. I wonder if there is a hidden agenda when so much confrontation is being injected into the process.

I would not be too surprised if there is a deliberate attempt to implode the TS 16949 certification process. Especially after the Auto Industry voice their discontentment with the way the TC 176 is taking the ISO 9001 standard towards.
 
J

Jessie

#68
Well it's certainly causing friction with us :) The registrar wins, they can now bill us for a follow up visit, plus travel costs because they can't seem to find a local auditor here in Detroit (but that's another point of contention).

It's interesting you mention the auto industry's discontent with the ISO9001 revisions. I just attended the annual ISO9000 conference, and they were very careful to state that at this point, TS16949 is not expected to change. Makes me wonder how they're going to pull that off.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#69
One of our plants had their surveillance audit this week, the first under the new rules. The auditor cited them for not being able to produce some test records - a valid finding - but then commented that 'under the old rules this would have been a minor non-conformance, but now it's a major'. She said each non-conformance begins now as a major, unless we can provide the auditor sufficient evidence that it is not. On the Action Plan form the registrar has added a section "Reasons why the nonconformity was not classified as major nonconformity"

I've read the rules, the SI's and the FAQ's, and I don't agree with this. What are your thoughts?
I think they over-interpreted the requirement...
 

xfngrs

Quite Involved in Discussions
#70
Our registrar did a Video Conference with the items we should be concerned with. It has not been posted online yet (they said it would be in next couple weeks), but I don't recall anything about this changing. Did you ask them to show you where this was?
 
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