Sample Approval by Customer - Customer doesn't send/return their approval

G

geamami

#1
Hello all,

I've got a little problem to solve for my employer. I'm a Advanced Quality Engineer responsible for implementing ISO/TS 16949. As you know, this is not the easiest job but it's a challenge :)
Here's my question, ISO/TS 16949 is required a sample approval by the customer (See paragraph 7.3.6.2 and 7.3.6.3) In my company we always providing a first sample and send this to the customer for approval but in most of the cases the customer doesn't send this approval. How to handle in and what can we do to tease the customer or do I interpret the ISO/TS on the wrong way?

Thanks for your advice.

Gerard Vervaart
 
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Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Sample Approval by customer

Hello all,

I've got a little problem to solve for my employer. I'm a Advanced Quality Engineer responsible for implementing ISO/TS 16949. As you know, this is not the easiest job but it's a challenge :)
Here's my question, ISO/TS 16949 is required a sample approval by the customer (See paragraph 7.3.6.2 and 7.3.6.3) In my company we always providing a first sample and send this to the customer for approval but in most of the cases the customer doesn't send this approval. How to handle in and what can we do to tease the customer or do I interpret the ISO/TS on the wrong way?

Thanks for your advice.

Gerard Vervaart
Gerard,

ISO/TS states: "When required by the customer, the organization shall have a prototype programme and control plan."

Do you always send prototypes or only when required by the customer?

This issue should actually be discussed and agreed upon during the contract review stage. (see 7.2)

Does this clarify?

Stijloor.
 
P

Phil Fields

#3
Re: Sample Approval by customer

Hello all,

I've got a little problem to solve for my employer. I'm a Advanced Quality Engineer responsible for implementing ISO/TS 16949. As you know, this is not the easiest job but it's a challenge :)
Here's my question, ISO/TS 16949 is required a sample approval by the customer (See paragraph 7.3.6.2 and 7.3.6.3) In my company we always providing a first sample and send this to the customer for approval but in most of the cases the customer doesn't send this approval. How to handle in and what can we do to tease the customer or do I interpret the ISO/TS on the wrong way?

Thanks for your advice.

Gerard Vervaart
It has been a while since doing any Automotie submissons (15+ years ago). Without the sample submission approval from your customer, how are is your company authorized to ship production parts?

Phil
 

antoine.dias

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Re: Sample Approval by customer

It has been a while since doing any Automotie submissons (15+ years ago). Without the sample submission approval from your customer, how are is your company authorized to ship production parts?

Phil
Are you going to get paid for the shipments ?

You may have difficulties in that direction if your products are not officially released. Although the signature on the file is a completely different thing than the release of the product in the system at the customer's side.

Best regards,

Antoine
 
G

geamami

#5
Re: Sample Approval by customer

Thank you both for your very quick replay on my question. I've read the passage but didn't realize that this was only when required by customer. I've just started in my new job and also at this company (6 weeks). I've got no idea why they always provide customer samples, I think because customers sometimes changing their requirements. The approval they've got now is because of the first order they receive from that particular customer. It sounds a little amateurish and it is :) You see, there’s a lot to do at this company.

Regards,

Gerard
 
G

geamami

#6
Re: Sample Approval by Customer - Customer doesn't send this approval

Hello Antoin,

Not all of our customer are automotive related customer, to be honest, we only have a few automotive customer but to get a ISO/TS certification you have to formalize and document a sample approval process.

I think I have to go back to paragraph 7.2, create a sort of questionair with all the customer needs enumerate. Of course also the question if they need a first sample.

Regards,

gerard
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#7
Just be honest with them and forgo all the Quality mumbo-jumbo. Tell them that you cannot and will not ship until approval by them is received and if they insist then it's "caveat emptor" and they will need to bear all the costs and burdens associated afterwards.

This isn't so much a Quality thing as it is a contractural thing...you have obligations and so do they.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#8
Hello all,

I've got a little problem to solve for my employer. I'm a Advanced Quality Engineer responsible for implementing ISO/TS 16949. As you know, this is not the easiest job but it's a challenge :)
Here's my question, ISO/TS 16949 is required a sample approval by the customer (See paragraph 7.3.6.2 and 7.3.6.3) In my company we always providing a first sample and send this to the customer for approval but in most of the cases the customer doesn't send this approval. How to handle in and what can we do to tease the customer or do I interpret the ISO/TS on the wrong way?

Thanks for your advice.

Gerard Vervaart
The comments thus far indicate that it's not clear what sort of samples you're referring to. You don't mention PPAP, so I'm assuming you're talking about some sort of preproduction samples. Unless you or your customer has an explicit requirement for submission and approval of samples, you don't have to worry about it. On the other hand, if submission and approval is required by the customer, you have two options: you can inform the customer that development will not proceed until approval is granted, or you can invoke implied approval by formally informing the customer that unless samples are approved within some specific reasonable amount of time, approval will be assumed and you will move on. If this is the tack you take, you'll need to document it in your system.

If sample submission and approval is your own company's requirement, just get rid of the requirement.
 
G

geamami

#10
Hello Jim and Randy,

These were the answers I was looking for, thanks for your great help.
For sure I will contact our legal department to legalise the clause I want to put first on the quotation and otherwise to the samples together with First Sample measuring report.

Whish you all a great and fine Easter.

Gerard
 
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