Sanity Check on ISO 9001 Pre-Assessment Findings

[Jim Wynne]

Let me put it real, real simple. The need for calibration or validation of devices in instances exactly like described has been appealed to an accreditation body by an organization that was audited and the appeal was lost. The NC stood as written

We have no way of knowing whether or not the situation here is "exactly like" the one you refer to, and without seeing the situation that was appealed (to an AB?) I can only defer to the language of the standard.

 

[Big Jim]

I agree that it's very plain. We won't get into the interpretation thing again, but the plain language of 7.6 says that calibration is required when necessary to ensure valid results and nowhere in the standard does it say that calibration is required if a measurement is required.

The straightforward simplicity of "In order to ensure valid results" is all to often lost. There is clearly a reason that it is the leading statement going into what calibration control consists of.

If it is not needed for valid results, it doesn't need to be calibrated!

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Again, this is not a customer requirement, nor a regulatory requirement. The shipping company (a supplier, not a customer) charges extra if we exceed 20 feet (no acceptance limits provided) so our procedure states to verify that the load is under 20 feet. We are careful to stay well under that. Nothing falls out of the sky, nobody gets hurt, product isn't affected and the customer never knows, we just lose some profit margin if we get careless and don't check before shipping.
We DO calibrate our scales as these are used to meet DOT requirements.

Thanks for explaining the potential consequences. In my estimation, that CLEARLY settles the inconsequential lack of verification of the tape measure. Mature, seasoned and competent auditors MUST assess the ramifications of their findings and write-ups. Would there be any return on the investment if this organization went through the trouble of "verifying" the tape measure? I don't think so.

As for a potential similar situation being ruled by an Accreditation Body otherwise, that does not make it right. The US Supreme Justice has made many questionable calls in the recent past. Just because a ruling has been made, it does not make it right.

Auditors must exercise common and business sense when reaching audit conclusions and not allow themselves to be blinkered by technicalities. While conformance to requirements is always important, so is the need to add value to the interested parties, because, if we don't, we are perceived as part of the problem and not the solution.

 

[Big Jim]

Thanks for explaining the potential consequences. In my estimation, that CLEARLY settles the inconsequential lack of verification of the tape measure. Mature, seasoned and competent auditors MUST assess the ramifications of their findings and write-ups. Would there be any return on the investment if this organization went through the trouble of "verifying" the tape measure? I don't think so.

As for a potential similar situation being ruled by an Accreditation Body otherwise, that does not make it right. The US Supreme Justice has made many questionable calls in the recent past. Just because a ruling has been made, it does not make it right.

Auditors must exercise common and business sense when reaching audit conclusions and not allow themselves to be blinkered by technicalities. While conformance to requirements is always important, so is the need to add value to the interested parties, because, if we don't, we are perceived as part of the problem and not the solution.

I completely agree, however, something to consider is that a calibrated tape doesn't cost all that much. Something like $40.00 to $45.00. For those that wish to simply "roll with the punches", it may be easier to just buy the stupid thing and be done with it.

 

[Randy]

I completely agree, however, something to consider is that a calibrated tape doesn't cost all that much. Something like $40.00 to $45.00. For those that wish to simply "roll with the punches", it may be easier to just buy the stupid thing and be done with it.

It doesn't even take that much when any old tape can be verified against something like a calibrated steel rule for accuracy (Most common solution)

1 calibrated rule can be used to verify 1, 10, 20, 100 or 1,000 tapes

 

[Marc]

I completely agree, however, something to consider is that a calibrated tape doesn't cost all that much. Something like $40.00 to $45.00. For those that wish to simply "roll with the punches", it may be easier to just buy the stupid thing and be done with it.

I have seen that done a lot with things like glass thermometers. Sometimes it is cheaper to pitch the old and just buy a new one with a cert.