Scope of a "process"? What is a Process?

[Audit Monkey]

So far, the only thing I find daft is that the auditor did this work on site rather than in the stage 1.

Perhaps this auditor was coming into the audit after the stage 1 review was completed by someone else.

 

[JaneB]

Makrab,

This one certainly gave me a much better idea of what you do than the original one, and I think is a considerable improvement.

I don't know enough about your field to make much useful comment on the technicality/whether it sounds correct, etc, but. I think you're still using some of the TC model/view of the world, albeit having 'turned it on its side' and much expanded the 'product realisation part', although honesty compels me to admit some people like that (I'm not one of them). I had a query about a couple of the metrics (on p2) at the end of your list, but relatively mindor.

But ultimately, these kinds of models come down to what works for you and in your context. So the most important question of all is: does your management agree that this is a reasonably accurate model? Is it useful and used in your context?

 

[Pancho]

JaneB, Could you kindly share with us an example of a process map that you like?

 

[howste]

Revised my process map and attached for your comments...!!!

I think this one is much better than the first one. As Jane says, I still think you're trying to force your processes into the TC176 model. I'm curious what the "Responsibility, Authority and Communication" process involves...

 

[Makrab]

Makrab,

This one certainly gave me a much better idea of what you do than the original one, and I think is a considerable improvement.

I don't know enough about your field to make much useful comment on the technicality/whether it sounds correct, etc, but. I think you're still using some of the TC model/view of the world, albeit having 'turned it on its side' and much expanded the 'product realisation part', although honesty compels me to admit some people like that (I'm not one of them). I had a query about a couple of the metrics (on p2) at the end of your list, but relatively mindor.

But ultimately, these kinds of models come down to what works for you and in your context. So the most important question of all is: does your management agree that this is a reasonably accurate model? Is it useful and used in your context?

I think this one is much better than the first one. As Jane says, I still think you're trying to force your processes into the TC176 model. I'm curious what the "Responsibility, Authority and Communication" process involves...

Thanks Jane and howste for your reply and sorry for my late reply.

I had submitted that process map for our management to review. Good news is they have accepted after few changes. They didn't mind using TC176 model as a base. At least I could convince them.

Also, I guess they were looking at the process map and all other related procedures. Anyways, thanks all of you for your active support.

I'm curious what the "Responsibility, Authority and Communication" process involves...

We have a Strategic & Corporate planning Function which prepares and regulates job descriptions with inputs from respective department, Mgmt Review meeting and their own organization study reports. These job descriptions includes Responsibilities, Authority and Communication between functions and different levels.

Thanks Andy, Helmut and qualitymanager

 

[JaneB]

I had submitted that process map for our management to review. Good news is they have accepted after few changes. They didn't mind using TC176 model as a base. At least I could convince them.

That's good news - glad to hear it & thanks for the update.

 

[JaneB]

JaneB, Could you kindly share with us an example of a process map that you like?

For overviews, there's a couple I like in this thread - quite a nice simple high-level one from Colpart. I also like the one posted by Paul Simpson, but think it could be improved graphically as the layout is slightly distracting to me (sorry Paul.)
If you want a simple example of a single process map, there's a sample procedure at the bottom of this page on my company website.

 

[Pancho]

Quite a nice simple high-level one from Colpart. I also like the one posted by Paul Simpson, but think it could be improved graphically as the layout is slightly distracting to me (sorry Paul.)
If you want a simple example of a single process map, there's a sample procedure at the bottom of this page on my company website.

I see your point on the process maps, thanks! So, when you're describing a system at a high level there is a measure of detail and graphics that are "optimal": more becomes distracting and less do not describe the system appropriately.

Regarding the single process map, I personally prefer outlines rather than flowcharts (at least whenever a process has a dominant path) for similar reasons: outlines are less distracting and easier to improve by editing.

 

[Makrab]

Dear Jane,

Thanks for those links, I found one Integrated Management System Manual posted in files section. First of all, I was surprise to see 9 pages of Manual along with few more pages of annexures. Anyway, that is not the point here.

Please see the Appendix 'A' - Process Model on Page 11 of 17 and let us know your view.

Thanks once again.

 

[JaneB]

I see your point on the process maps, thanks! So, when you're describing a system at a high level there is a measure of detail and graphics that are "optimal": more becomes distracting and less do not describe the system appropriately.

That's my view (although other people may disagree). It always comes back to what the purpose of the thing is and who the main audience is. Most often at the high level, one's trying to communicate an overview of a system, mainly for newbies and outsiders, so then yes, I definitely prefer them to be fairly simple and clear. And too much detail on them is very distracting and hard to deal with. To me, an overview diagram that needs lengthy thinking about and explanation of isn't doing it's job. But engineers (say) used to spending time looking at complex diagrams could have a way different view.

Regarding the single process map, I personally prefer outlines rather than flowcharts (at least whenever a process has a dominant path) for similar reasons: outlines are less distracting and easier to improve by editing.

Either is quite acceptable, and again, depends on preference. That example is taken from one for a client who really liked a simple graphical approach (it's in Powerpoint, and fairly basic). But some people loathe flowcharts and/or prefer text because it's more quickly changed. I do text ones too, but I don't call them 'maps'.