Scope of IATF 16949 clauses 8.4.1 and 8.4.2

[morteza]

Dear all,

There is a problem for me about the scope of the requirements of clause 8.4.1 and 8.4.2.

Based on clause 8.4.1 and 8.4.2, it seems that the scope of the requirement is only for suppliers that provide products that incorporate into the organization's own products or directly sent to the customers on behalf of the organization and the related products (product and product' supplier). This means that it is not necessary to determine and apply criteria for the evaluation, selection, monitoring of performance, and re-evaluation of other providers such as production equipment/tool providers. As you know the production equipment/tool such as machine, gauges or fixtures have an important effect on the quality of organization's own products. So, my questions are:

1. Does the scope of clause 8.4.1 and 8.4.2 do not cover other purchased items such as production equipment and their related suppliers (production equipment and production equipment supplier), than product or service?

2. Is there any requirement in IATF 16949 to define the necessity of controls on suppliers providing production equipment and the purchased equipment?

Thanks all,

 

[AMIT BALLAL]

Clause "8.4.2.1- Type and extent of controls" asks to prepare a documented process specifying what controls your organization will have on all outsourced products, processes and services.

 

[Sebastian]

It covers generally everything needed for company effective operation and coming from external sources.

 

[John C. Abnet]

Good day @morteza;
8.4.1.1 expounds on the ISO 9001:2015 requirements which you refer to as follows....
8.4.1.1 General- supplemental
"...shall include all products and service that affect customer requirements..."

The clause then goes on to provide some examples.

They key terms are "...all....that affect customer requirements..."

Hope this helps.

 

[Golfman25]

Yep 8.4.1.1 tells you exactly what to apply it to.

 

[morteza]

It covers generally everything needed for company effective operation and coming from external sources.

Good day @morteza;
8.4.1.1 expounds on the ISO 9001:2015 requirements which you refer to as follows....
8.4.1.1 General- supplemental
"...shall include all products and service that affect customer requirements..."

The clause then goes on to provide some examples.

They key terms are "...all....that affect customer requirements..."

Hope this helps.

Hi Sebastian, Hi John,

It is sensible to apply controls on every items and their provider which are effective directly or indirectly on the organization's product.

But unfortunately IATF 16949 and ISO 9001 use the words "product" and "service", not a general word such as "item". can we interpret that the word "product" include tools or machine used for production?

I think in clause 8.4.1.1 the IATF 16949 wants to emphasize on services such as calibration, measurement, design, etc. the word "all" refers to products and services which I think that product does not include tools or machine used in production.

your clarification would help

 

[Sebastian]

See Note 1 to section 1. Scope where "customer" is you. Tool is product, calibration is service and both are externally provided in case of your organization.