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Scope of ISO 9001 Registration of Automotive Leasing Company?

samer

Involved - Posts
#1
Freinds,
im preparing QMS for automotive and leasing company

we lease vehicle to customer and the same time we fabricate interior steel cage for the same vehicle as an additional service .

we need the (scope of registration ) to be just for the leasing activity without the fabrication section

can this be done in yr opinion ? if you know that the fabricatied cage will certainly affect the final quality of the leased vehilce .
 
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Sidney Vianna

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#2
Confucio said: "Scope the scope".

samer said:
we need the (scope of registration ) to be just for the leasing activity without the fabrication section
can this be done in yr opinion ? if you know that the fabricated cage will certainly affect the final quality of the leased vehicle .
Yes. You can limit the scope of certification to the vehicle leasing activities. I suggest you peruse the document available through this link that explains the difference between the scope of the QMS and the scope of certification.
Hope this helps.
 

samer

Involved - Posts
#3
reply

sidney,
thanks ,i"ve read hte document but, but my concern was to what degree can I limit the scope of registration as example for two production lines ,are you totaly free to do that , even if you know that there is some common activities between them which will affect the customer satsfaction??
 

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Re: Confucio said: "Scope the scope".

Yes. You can limit the scope of certification to the vehicle leasing activities. I suggest you peruse the document available through this link that explains the difference between the scope of the QMS and the scope of certification.
Hope this helps.
Thanks to Sidney for posting the links. I have followed the thread through the ISO guidance and am sorely disappointed that you can pretty much choose what you have assessed and certifyed / registered. Here is just one of the examples they provide:

Situation:

A bank provides a variety of services to its customers (i.e. personal and company bank accounts), but chooses to implement a QMS only for its Internet banking services. For this service the bank has claimed conformity to ISO 9001:2000. The bank clearly states in its Quality Manual which services are covered by the QMS. The bank applies all the requirements of ISO 9001:2000 for the realization of its Internet banking services, with the exception of sub-clause 7.5.4 Customer property. The bank does not feel that it has possession of any customer property as part of its Internet banking services and has stated this in the justification for the exclusion of sub-clause 7.5.4 Customer property from its QMS.

Issue(s):

Can the bank exclude sub-clause 7.5.4 Customer property from its QMS and claim conformity to ISO 9001:2000?

Analysis and Conclusion:

The decision made by the bank to exclude sub-clause 7.5.4 Customer property was not justified because the bank does receive information from its customers such as personal and confidential data. ISO 9001, 7.5.4 Customer property requires an organization to exercise care with customer property while it is under the organizations control or being used by the organization. In this situation, the bank’s customers provide important information in confidence when using the service, which constitutes “Customer property”. Therefore the bank has to address the requirements for customer property in its QMS.



Is it only me who thinks this is wrong. IMHO the scope of the QMS should cover everything the organization does. Otherwise you are relying on the registrar / CB to police the organization's use of registration marks to make sure potential customers are not misled into thinking the registration covers more of the organization's activities than it does. Taken to the nth degree you can have an organization that has a thousand product lines and has one manufacturing line assessed and registered. Surely any claims of registration by the organization would be misleading? Or is it me?

Any other examples, anyone?
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#7
Re: Confucio said: "Scope the scope".

....Is it only me who thinks this is wrong. IMHO the scope of the QMS should cover everything the organization does. Otherwise you are relying on the registrar / CB to police the organization's use of registration marks to make sure potential customers are not misled into thinking the registration covers more of the organization's activities than it does. ...

I think you are correct, Paul. An organization should have the right to determine what scope should consist of, but there is no one to police how the organization represents their "partial" certification. Will they openly communicate only one division is registered? Probably not...
 

Sidney Vianna

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#8
Re: Confucio said: "Scope the scope".

Is it only me who thinks this is wrong. IMHO the scope of the QMS should cover everything the organization does. Otherwise you are relying on the registrar / CB to police the organization's use of registration marks to make sure potential customers are not misled into thinking the registration covers more of the organization's activities than it does. Taken to the nth degree you can have an organization that has a thousand product lines and has one manufacturing line assessed and registered. Surely any claims of registration by the organization would be misleading? Or is it me?

Any other examples, anyone?
But it is the CB's responsibility to police the use of the marks and issue a certificate that CLEARLY defines what is certified and what is not. The users of the certificate should also be attentive to it's contents.
In the scenario that an organization, with hundreds of plants around the World, has been requested by a customer to have a plant certified, would you expect the whole organization to go for (unnecessary) certification?
 
Last edited:

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#9
Re: Confucio said: "Scope the scope".

But is is CB's responsibility to police the use of the marks and issue a certificate that CLEARLY defines what is certified and what is not. The users of the certificate should also be attentive to it's contents.
In the scenario that an organization, with hundreds of plants around the World, has been requested by a customer to have a plant certified, would you expect the whole organization to go for (unnecessary) certification?
I understand Paul's misgivings, but there are also instances where companies registering to 16949 have non-applicable commericial business; would it be questionable in such a case for company to tout its registration to non-automotive customers? At what point does it become the customer's responsibility to understand the scope of registration?
 

Sidney Vianna

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Staff member
Admin
#10
Re: Confucio said: "Scope the scope".

At what point does it become the customer's responsibility to understand the scope of registration?
IMO, when a customer relies on a third party certificate, as part of their supplier oversight process, they MUST be educated enough about issues such as this and carefully scrutinize the certificates.

Check this ISO-advice
 
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