Second Registrar Visit to Confirm Major Nonconformances Fixed

normzone

Trusted Information Resource
#1
As always, I begin by thanking the people who administer and contribute to this place - don't know what I'd do without my extended dysfunctional family :bigwave:

I had an ISO 9001 surveillance audit on the system I recently inherited. We were written up for two major nonconformances, neither of which I would argue with.

Our auditor stated that it's the certifying body's policy to schedule a return visit in sixty days to verify the implementation and effectiveness of the corrective actions, and since his schedule is full this would have to be done on a Saturday.

Has anyone else encountered a policy similar? I understand the opportunity to bill for increased revenue. The policy is not mentioned on the CB's website or in our contract.

Much thanks - normzone
 
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Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#2
That doesnt seem right :(

It is expected for the CB's Audit Manager to coordinate the dates with you and definitely not have the visit on a holiday. Its the responsibility of the CB's audit manager also to allocate resources.

Did your organization raise a concern of the Saturday visit ?
 

normzone

Trusted Information Resource
#3
I expressed my concern but the auditor claimed a full schedule at that time. Perhaps I should ask the CB audit manager for a weekday reschedule.
 

Big Jim

Trusted Information Resource
#4
Not all Majors require a revisit. You should have a conversation directly with your certification body as to if a revisit is needed.

One of my clients recently told me of a scam that his CB auditor tried to pull on him concerning this exact situation. Apparently the auditor went out of his way to find Majors, appropriately or not, and then get a revisit purely to build up his billing time (his earnings). A phone call to the CB cleared it up.

I don't know if you are caught up in the same scam, but a call to your CB is in order.

The revisit, if needed, doesn't need to be by the same auditor if his schedule will not accommodate it. The CB can send another auditor.

This whole thing stinks like a rotting fish. If I haven't emphasized it enough, call your CB.
 

normzone

Trusted Information Resource
#5
I just submitted the customer satisfaction survey form, and I addressed this issue. I'll give them a day to contact me and then I'll follow up on it by phone / email.

I have never had an auditor require a revisit before. I can see it from a revenue standpoint but I've always just made my corrections and had the auditor verify effectiveness at the next audit.
 
J

JaneB

#6
Good - because talking directly with CB is definitely indicated.
An auditor may decide that a return visit is required, for example if 'desktop verification' would not be adequate, so it's.not unheard of. What is strange is that he says this is Policy - I'd certainly want to check if that is true!
So yes, it can happen. But I've never ever heard of a Saturday visit. And it doesn't have to be the same auditor either. Definitely smells a bit fishy.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#7
Has anyone encountered this requirement? Oh heck yeah, I've done ton's of revisits just like the one described and the requirement most likely is in the Conditions of Contact for the certificate....It's not a secret or anything sneaky boys and girls

Also for the particular CB I normally work for it is required that the opening meeting cover such eventualities....Again no secret

If the Major is for a strictly "paper" problem then yeah, sure they can be done off site, but if it's something like a production or high risk problem then it's an onsite visit....Also normally not a secret

The justification for revisits of a CB would be for them to meet ISO 17021:2011 section/clause 9.6 requirements
 

Big Jim

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Two reasons this really sounds fishy.

1st, I have encountered this exact situation, including the so called need for a Saturday visit.

2nd, how is the auditor going to take care of anything other than a paperwork issue on a Saturday when there is no production taking place?
 
J

JaneB

#9
Agree with you, Randy, it happens.
This situation isn't necessarily fishy, but the Saturday is a bit odd.

I recently had a client whose auditor insisted on returning for a 1/2 day audit, though had told them previously it would only be via verification of evidence submitted remotely.

Anyway, the important thing here is for the person to speak to their CB and clarify. Until then, we're all just speculating.
 

dsheaffe

Involved In Discussions
#10
Just in case the other posters haven't highlighted it enough - talk to your CB to get clarification. :deadhorse:

While I have never been in a position where an Auditor has found a major and required a follow-up visit, it is certainly something that all auditors (and their CB's) I have dealt with have made clear up front during an entry meeting that if they find a major, then a follow-up visit may be warranted to confirm actions. Again, have never heard of a Saturday.
 
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