Self Proclamation of ISO 9001 Certification and Compliance

[Old Quality Gal]

Well folks! As your great minds have helped me so many times before I am looking for input again.
I have a client who has stumped old quality gal.
She wants me to point out to her which standard and where is says explicitly that she can't print her own certificate and pronounce her company not just compliant but "certified" to ISO 9001:2000.
She wants to know precisely which standard says you need 3rd party accreditation. I am a certified lead assessor and have been for many years and I don't think I have ever been asked this particular question.
Of course many companies generate statements of compliance or conformance in lieu of 3rd party registration and there are some large companies who can quasi self-assess such as Motorola, a client of mine. But they still have an accredited 3rd part registrar monitor their program and keep it honest. I skimmed 9004:2000 but nothing jumped out at me.
I can always call my registrar but I thought I would start with you folks. I will likely smack my forehead and go duh! when you give me the answer.
Thanks in advance! I am copying her precise words below in case in I missing something in interpreting her question.
"What ISO/IEC Guide or Standard (or other) states that certify or certified cannot be used in relationship to statements of self proclamation of conformance or internal to the company a 2nd party or self assessment has been done and now claims of certification are made? "

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Self Proclation of Certification and Compliance

"What ISO/IEC Guide or Standard (or other) states that certify or certified cannot be used in relationship to statements of self proclamation of conformance or internal to the company a 2nd party or self assessment has been done and now claims of certification are made? "

Aside from the point that your correspondent's query has a fatal grammar breakdown at the end, anyone who wants to can print a certificate that says that they are certified to do just about anything. So long as there's no reference to traceability to an actual, accredited certifying body, your client can claim to be certified to teach calculus to squirrels (and the certificate he's proposing would be every bit as valuable).

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Self Proclation of Certification and Compliance

Well folks! As your great minds have helped me so many times before I am looking for input again.
I have a client who has stumped old quality gal.
She wants me to point out to her which standard and where is says explicitly that she can't print her own certificate and pronounce her company not just compliant but "certified" to ISO 9001:2000.
She wants to know precisely which standard says you need 3rd party accreditation. I am a certified lead assessor and have been for many years and I don't think I have ever been asked this particular question.
Of course many companies generate statements of compliance or conformance in lieu of 3rd party registration and there are some large companies who can quasi self-assess such as Motorola, a client of mine. But they still have an accredited 3rd part registrar monitor their program and keep it honest. I skimmed 9004:2000 but nothing jumped out at me.
I can always call my registrar but I thought I would start with you folks. I will likely smack my forehead and go duh! when you give me the answer.
Thanks in advance! I am copying her precise words below in case in I missing something in interpreting her question.
"What ISO/IEC Guide or Standard (or other) states that certify or certified cannot be used in relationship to statements of self proclamation of conformance or internal to the company a 2nd party or self assessment has been done and now claims of certification are made? "

As discussed numerous times here, management system certification is a non-regulated activity. So, pretty much, anyone can declare anything without violating any law. ISO/IEC standards are, for the most part, voluntary documents and do not carry any "law enforcement" component.

Nevertheless, if your client wants to self declare compliant to something, it would probably carry more weight if she did it in compliance with ISO/IEC 17050. Check for information on this post and also in this thread about ANSI declaring self compliance.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Self Proclation of Certification and Compliance

can claim to be certified to teach calculus to squirrels .

Is there a market for that? What is ASQ's BOK on this subject?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Self Proclation of Certification and Compliance

Is there a market for that? What is ASQ's BOK on this subject?

I don't know. I've been working with the squirrels in my backyard for several years now, and we haven't gone beyond basic algebra. I can tell you this, though--the spiders are dam good at geometry.

 

[BadgerMan]

Re: Self Proclation of Certification and Compliance

your client can claim to be certified to teach calculus to squirrels (and the certificate he's proposing would be every bit as valuable).

CSCI (Certified Squirrel Calculus Instructor) would look good on a resume'.

The sad fact is, most reviewers would not question it.

 

[BadgerMan]

Re: Self Proclation of Certification and Compliance

I've been working with the squirrels in my backyard for several years now

Yeah, I work on them too.........with a shotgun, a crock pot, a little onion soup mix, some wild rice..............

People Eating Tasty Animals!

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Re: Self Proclation of Certification and Compliance

She wants me to point out to her which standard and where is says explicitly that she can't print her own certificate and pronounce her company not just compliant but "certified" to ISO 9001:2000.

There isn't.

If the client has decided to say they are certified, only one drawback that could happen: If their Customer's decide to verify the Certification they would find that they aren't, which in turn, could cause the loss of Customers because it would show that the company maybe unethical, because they lied about their Registration.

I skimmed 9004:2000 but nothing jumped out at me.

That is a guideline only, and you can't be registered/certified to ISO9004:2000. However, if the client is self-proclaiming go ahead and let them use ISO9004:2000.

 

[solutions]

Re: Self Proclation of ISO 9001 Certification and Compliance

What great timing that this subject came up! I have been asked if a company can have someone "pass" them for the FDA's QSR (they aren't producing a classified medical device) or ISO 9001:2000 without actually being certified. Two different stories here, I know.

This is not the first time that it has come up but mostly by those who don't want to spend any resources or money on anything (read QMS) that they perceive as non-value added (read ignorant). Just give them the ability to self-certify, pay a few bucks, and they'll leave it at that.

I guess if you go to all the trouble to put into place an appropriate and compliant system, why not have a real certificate that your customers might at least appreciate a little. If you can derive a benefit of your certificate as a marketing tool (read sales $), then chalk up the cert costs as marketing expenses and maybe even save some money with the QMS to offset that!

Just a thought.

 

[nonaynever - 2008]

Re: Self Proclation of ISO 9001 Certification and Compliance

Can we just come up with a certificate design, then & agree a cartel (4 figure) price, lol?