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Selling parts as TS16949 compliant, but not holding TS16949

Raffy

Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#11
#11
Hi 323man,:bigwave:
We are also a manufacturing and at the same time a testing facility. Our Manufacturing which deals with the automotive parts bears the TS16949 Certificate. Our Testing Facility was assessed in meeting the requirements of TS16949 but we are only given a Letter of Conformance.
Raffy:cool:
323man said:
Hi Howard,

Thanks for your reply,

Regarding the way things are manufactured, it took me a while to get used to also, but I think it is normal in the electronic component industry. The question is only how far back down the chain you own. Actually I think that my company perform more testing and have a smaller (and closer managed) supply base than any of our competitors.
Yes we audit our suppliers and any returns are investigated by QA and Engineering in our company with corrective actions and implementations to prevent reoccurrence being a combination of the manufacturing sites and our sites implementations, any actions given by our manufacturing site are followed up at the next audit.
Historically our company was a manufacturing company which started to outsource some of the work, until at some point all the work became out sourced.

I hope you can appreciate that for the purposes of this discussion I am being very honest about the situation.

On the one hand we could simply box shift for our automotive customers and tell them where we are buying from, but on the other hand actually this would mean having a lower level of supplier control than we have for standard product.

When you say:-
The testing that you do should be according to the complete requirements of TS.

Does this mean that as a test house we would need to obtain TS16949 certificate?
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3

323man

#12
#12
ralphsulser said:
ISO9001:2000/TS16949:2002 compliant is not the same as TS16949 system certification and registration. I think you can declare your operations as
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ralphsulser said:
TS16949 Compliant if in fact you are and can show eveidence. If not TS16949 then at least compliant to ISO9001:2000.
What are the thoughts from the other posters regarding this method?
Click to expand...
We hold an ISO:9001 certificate
I wonder how much work it would involve to become compliant to TS16949? Can anyone suggest what I should start reading to learn about this one?

Raffy said:
Hi 323man,
Click to expand...
Raffy said:
We are also a manufacturing and at the same time a testing facility. Our Manufacturing which deals with the automotive parts bears the TS16949 Certificate. Our Testing Facility was assessed in meeting the requirements of TS16949 but we are only given a Letter of Conformance.
Raffy
Click to expand...
I get the impression from your comments above that there is a difference between holding a TS16949 certificate and having a letter of conformance to TS16949? Is this the same situation as Ralph is suggesting?
I wonder how much would be involved to get our test house up to a level in which we could also have a letter of conformance to TS16949?


I think I am starting to get an impression of how this can work for us:- Looks like I will be reading PPAP requests from our customers, then translating these into PPAP requests to our suppliers, then reading our suppliers PPAP reports and translating them into a PPAP report from us to our customer.

I have never worked in a TS16949 approved environment, can you guys recommend any documentation which I can read to begin to familiarize myself with PPAP reporting?

Thanks again

 
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3

323man

#14
#14
We have a copy of the PPAP second edition, febuary 1995. Which relates to QS9000.

I imagine that if I take this home over the weekend and familiarise myself with this, the TS16949 system is basically the same? From the aiag website I see that the current edition is number 4
 
T

tyker

#15
#15
323man said:
We have a copy of the PPAP second edition, febuary 1995. Which relates to QS9000.

I imagine that if I take this home over the weekend and familiarise myself with this, the TS16949 system is basically the same? From the aiag website I see that the current edition is number 4
Click to expand...
It might give you an idea but using an out of date document is a decidedly dodgy practice which is unlikely to be recommended here. Details have changed.

Don't forget that the activities which take place within your organization may also need covering in a process flow diagram, PFMEA and control plan. If you do testing you may need a lab scope, calibration, measurement systems analysis etc. All these may be required as part of the PPAP.
 
Stijloor

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#16
#16
323man said:
We have a copy of the PPAP second edition, febuary 1995. Which relates to QS9000.

I imagine that if I take this home over the weekend and familiarise myself with this, the TS16949 system is basically the same? From the aiag website I see that the current edition is number 4
Click to expand...
I recommend to do some searches here at The Cove Forums to familiarize yourself with PPAP 4th Edition and ISO/TS 16949:2002.

Just to clarify quickly: You need the PPAP 4th edition. PPAP spells out the requirements for PPAP submission! ISO/TS 16949:2002 spells out the requirements of a quality system.

Stijloor.
 
L

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#17
#17
May I ask who would be responsible for doing the 8D should there be a customer complaint. As I understand at this point the OE customer does not have a clue where the manufacturing location is. Thank you.
 
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