Shipping Aerospace parts without Stress certs

[bryan willemot]

Your right Jim, however we do have waivers from the majority of our customers and have even specifically produced parts out of parameter to test and create a concession range which we have not had to use. We have dealt with Rolls Royce, MBDA, Airbus and several other high level customers and have the acceptance of this. I agree you have to have this waiver and permission to be able to work without the worry, this involves us internally testing our chemistry more than the requirements weekly to keep the controls

Yes, we do the same, its obvious if you put parts in a 72 hour stress test, and it comes out and we ave to send the parts out for mag, we can see that the parts are going to pass. we then at the request of the customer will ship the parts less the stress

 

[Jim Wynne]

Yes, we do the same, its obvious if you put parts in a 72 hour stress test, and it comes out and we ave to send the parts out for mag, we can see that the parts are going to pass. we then at the request of the customer will ship the parts less the stress

Sorry, but I don't understand any of this. You put the parts into stress testing, and the parts come out of stress testing, then they're sent out for further processing (what does "mag" mean?), then they're shipped to your customer without the required certs or test reports. Can you clear this up for me?

 

[bryan willemot]

are you certified aerospace? or automotive, i keep having to explain basic aerospace stuff to you

Parts are put into a 72 hour stress test (parts= fasteners), those fasteners then go to a "MAG" test= magnetic particle inspection, then the results / certs are sent to us via e-mail which are then part of the cert pac with the CoC as the cover page. some major customers ask for the parts less the stress / mag results, and hold the parts or do there inspections while we are getting the results of the mag.

 

[Jim Wynne]

are you certified aerospace? or automotive, i keep having to explain basic aerospace stuff to you

Please don't assume that your failure to articulate the issues clearly has anything to do with my level of expertise.

Parts are put into a 72 hour stress test (parts= fasteners), those fasteners then go to a "MAG" test= magnetic particle inspection, then the results / certs are sent to us via e-mail which are then part of the cert pac with the CoC as the cover page. some major customers ask for the parts less the stress / mag results, and hold the parts or do there inspections while we are getting the results of the mag.

There you go--a fairly clear explanation of the processing. Thanks. How do you know for sure that the parts are going to be held by the customer pending receipt of test results? I'll say it again: it's not a good idea to do this sort of thing without explicit written waivers from the customer. Your adding a disclaimer to the CofC won't help much if something bad happens.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Does anyone ship parts (aerospace) to customers less stress? if so do you have a sample letter that you send to the customer?

In principle that might violate AS9100D 8.6 where it requires the organization to ensure that all documented information required to accompany the products and services are present at delivery, obviously depending on the time gap between shipment and delivery. A letter from the supplier is redundant in case you have the customer waiver. And, in the absence of the waiver, it would be indeed a very risky proposition.

 

[bryan willemot]

In principle that might violate AS9100D 8.6 where it requires the organization to ensure that all documented information required to accompany the products and services are present at delivery, obviously depending on the time gap between shipment and delivery. A letter from the supplier is redundant in case you have the customer waiver. And, in the absence of the waiver, it would be indeed a very risky proposition.

Sidney,
thank you for the comment, yes i agree and was looking for a sample of said waiver, something other then a sales e-mail

 

[Jim Wynne]

Sidney,
thank you for the comment, yes i agree and was looking for a sample of said waiver, something other then a sales e-mail

The waiver comes from the customer. They are waiving the requirement.

 

[mmasiddiqui]

Yes, we do the same, its obvious if you put parts in a 72 hour stress test, and it comes out and we ave to send the parts out for mag, we can see that the parts are going to pass. we then at the request of the customer will ship the parts less the stress

Now when the customer is asking you to send the parts to them before stress test is completed, the onus rests on the person sending you the communication. Incase of any safety incident/ nonconformance, the employee will face action and not the business. Also, many times such requests are on the call without any documented evidence of evading the mandatory requirement.

Waver from the Customer, will bring company's legal team into picture and protect your Business's interest. Also, you will have a documented evidence for non compliance. I have seen suppliers put into tough spot, due to employee requests for sending shipment.

 

[Jim Wynne]

I want to add a cautionary note here regarding shipping product before all of the requirements have been met.

Hypothetically, let's say that a company manufactures fasteners to aerospace customers. Some of the fasteners, in end use, are buried in a complex assembly used in an aircraft. Further assume that one of those airplanes is involved in an accident, and investigation indicates that the aforementioned complex assembly might have contributed to the accident. As in all cases of aircraft accidents, there will be lawsuits. The plaintiff's attorneys will include in their lawsuits every company that had anything to do with the manufacture of that assembly. Every company, even those whose products couldn't have had anything to do with the failure.

Now those companies who produced products used in the assembly but not related to the failure will have to answer those lawsuits (and there could be many). It can take a lot of time and money. If it's discovered that the fastener company shipped parts before test results were available, it would doubtlessly lead to the expenditure of a lot more time and money in order to have a lawsuit against them dismissed. Believe me--plaintiffs' attorneys in these cases will leave absolutely no stone unturned. Everything a company did or didn't do will be examined in infinite bloody detail, not by attorneys but by the attorneys' hired experts, who know exactly what to look for.

 

[mmasiddiqui]

I want to add a cautionary note here regarding shipping product before all of the requirements have been met.

Hypothetically, let's say that a company manufactures fasteners to aerospace customers. Some of the fasteners, in end use, are buried in a complex assembly used in an aircraft. Further assume that one of those airplanes is involved in an accident, and investigation indicates that the aforementioned complex assembly might have contributed to the accident. As in all cases of aircraft accidents, there will be lawsuits. The plaintiff's attorneys will include in their lawsuits every company that had anything to do with the manufacture of that assembly. Every company, even those whose products couldn't have had anything to do with the failure.

Now those companies who produced products used in the assembly but not related to the failure will have to answer those lawsuits (and there could be many). It can take a lot of time and money. If it's discovered that the fastener company shipped parts before test results were available, it would doubtlessly lead to the expenditure of a lot more time and money in order to have a lawsuit against them dismissed. Believe me--plaintiffs' attorneys in these cases will leave absolutely no stone unturned. Everything a company did or didn't do will be examined in infinite bloody detail, not by attorneys but by the attorneys' hired experts, who know exactly what to look for.

Could not have said any better! Agreed