Should Forms printed for daily use in the shop floor be controlled documents?

P

Pran_ms

#1
Hi everybody

I am new to ISO, we are getting started for ISO 9001 certification and we are almost at the end of document preperation phase. We have uploaded all Master Document/Forms in Intranet.
Supervisors have the authority to print forms from Intranet. My question is, should the Form printed for daily use in the shop floor needs to be controlled? What is the effective methods that some of you have employed.

Thanks
 
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bobdoering

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#2
Re: Should Forms controlled document

Hi everybody

I am new to ISO, we are getting started for ISO 9001 certification and we are almost at the end of document preparation phase. We have uploaded all Master Document/Forms in Intranet.
Supervisors have the authority to print forms from Intranet. My question is, should the Form printed for daily use in the shop floor needs to be controlled? What is the effective methods that some of you have employed.

Thanks
Yes, blank forms should be controlled. That answers the audit question: "How do you know you are using the current, correct form?" Give them a form number (so you can cross reference it) and a rev date, and you are good to go. Even if you know it is the correct form the moment you print it from a control system, it is handy to have that infor on the form....just in case you run into the guy who has the stack of them in his drawer...:cool:
 
P

Pran_ms

#3
Re: Should Forms controlled document

Thanks for the reply
Just to clear up, the forms are named and has revision level and date. A master document checklist is published that shows the latest revision levels. I wanted to know, once the forms are printed is it necessary to have that red "controlled document" stamp before filling out the form.
 
#4
Re: Should Forms controlled document

Make them a .pdf file so no-one can mess with them - Bob's got it right too.....

Also, welcome to the Cove! If you are new to ISO, chances are your questions have been asked before, so can we suggest a quick 'search' and a review of previously posted questions. - it's more than likely yours has already been asked!
 
T

tsmith7858

#5
Re: Should Forms controlled document

I am in the middle of installing ISO 22000 and no, you do not need to stamp the forms. Your rev level and date will suffice if anyone wants to verify the correct form is being used.

I also have to agree with Andy. Do a search and you will find your answer and many others. I have gotten a lot of good information!

Elsmar is a great tool with a boat load of information.
 
G

Geoff Withnell

#6
Re: Should Forms controlled document

Thanks for the reply
Just to clear up, the forms are named and has revision level and date. A master document checklist is published that shows the latest revision levels. I wanted to know, once the forms are printed is it necessary to have that red "controlled document" stamp before filling out the form.
What is the purpose for the "controlled document" stamp on ANY document? What does it do for your organization. In most QMS systems that have such, it is really totally non-value added.

Geoff Withnell
 
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bobdoering

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#7
Re: Should Forms controlled document

What is the purpose for the "controlled document" stamp on ANY document? What does it do for your organization. In most QMS systems that have such, it is really totally non-value added.
The key audit question it is there to answer is "How do you know this is the most current revision of this document (i.e. controlled)?" Some systems use the weak" If it is not on our data base, it is not controlled", which means there would be computer stations attached to that database at every station to ensure they are using controlled documents. It exists, but pretty rare. In any event, to control a document (work instruction, etc.), you do not need a red stamp - you can have an area on the form where you put the location in red pen, for example. Why red? To verify it is not an uncontrolled copy. Got color copiers? Not a big problem, you can till tell an original.

Any way you can answer that question effectively when you pick up a document will work. If you are counting on just rev and date alone, be ready to get hit when someone finds an uncontrolled copy. That is where the value lies. Can you have uncontrolled copies? Yes, you can weasel them into your system. But, you have to be able to tell them apart from controlled ones. Some poeple stamp them, too. Now, that is usually not value added.
 
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Cari Spears

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#8
Re: Should Forms controlled document

I wanted to know, once the forms are printed is it necessary to have that red "controlled document" stamp before filling out the form.
Hi, Pran - welcome to the cove!:bigwave:

Once a form is filled out, it becomes a record. We control the blank forms as you described, but we do not stamp them controlled or anything when we print them to use. Once the form is filled out, it is controlled in accordance with our procedure for control of records - such things as where stored, for how long, etc.
 
G

Geoff Withnell

#9
Re: Should Forms controlled document

The key audit question it is there to answer is "How do you know this is the most current revision of this document (i.e. controlled)?" Some systems use the weak" If it is not on our data base, it is not controlled", which means there would be computer stations attached to that database at every station to ensure they are using controlled documents. It exists, but pretty rare. In any event, you do not need a red stamp - you can have an area on the form where you put the location in red pen, for example. Why red? To verify it is not an uncontrolled copy. Got color copiers? Not a big problem, you can till tell an original.

Any way you can answer that question effectively when you pick up a document will work. If you are counting on just rev and date alone, be ready to get hit when someone finds an uncontrolled copy. That is where the value lies. Can you have uncontrolled copies? Yes, you can weasel them into your system. But, you have to be able to tell them apart from controlled ones. Some poeple stamp them, too. Now, that is usually not value added.

Can you have uncontrolled documents - of course! Howvever, what is the point of the document control system? To assure that only the up to date information is used. If uncontrolled documents are around, it is because they are being used. Since they are uncontrolled, the possibility exists that they will used when they are no longer current, thus making the document control system ineffective. ALL documents being used in the qms that have the possibility of becoming outdated should be subject to whatever controls the qms are using. Given that, the red stamp, red initials, whatever, becomes irrelevant. How do I know this is the latest revision? Because our document system assures that only the latest revision is available. Simple, easy, foolproof.

Geoff Withnell
 
S

Sorin

#10
Re: Should Forms controlled document

What is the purpose for the "controlled document" stamp on ANY document? What does it do for your organization. In most QMS systems that have such, it is really totally non-value added.

Geoff Withnell

I will not even touch the drawing issue...that's an off-limit in the sense that the use of a non-controlled drawing (read photo-copied) was puting your 2()s under a hammer.

The purpose of the controlled document stamp is to ensure that no outdated document is used on the floor. And it's not for EVERY document unless data is critical.

Say a foreman does not feel like getting a 5 minutes hike to the closest printer (assuming he does not have a dedicated or shared printer close) and decide to make a few copies from the latest batch - printed last week - and so it happens that a new revision just was added in system. And because bad things happen in clusters there is an external audit in process.And on top of that the change in question was following a CA from a customer due to a big recall. :cool: :notme:

My suggestion is to put, on every form that could be printed for internal use, a watermark that cannot be copied.

Also if you have forms that are to be used with shop travellers and you are using a software as GlobalPress (I think it's the right name) you can print all the blank forms to be used at the same time with the shop traveller.

IMO implied.....
 
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