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Should I perform Gage R&R only at the beginning of a new project?

Graciel

Involved In Discussions
#1
Dear all,

should I perform R&R only at the beginning of a new project. Will I never need to reproduce again? (If it´s based on IATF, does it say exactly when?)

Thank you.
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
MSA should not have to be repeated unless there have been significant changes in the system. The object is to demonstrate that a particular measurement system, including devices and operators, is appropriate for measurement of a particular dimension or feature.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Jim is correct, but consider what he says in detail...

If you've done a GRR for measurements by this method for 1-4 inches before...but the new project is using the same method for measuring 12 inches...
Consider that things like this may be "significant changes in the system"...even if the technique and tools remain the same.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#4
should I perform R&R only at the beginning of a new project.
Please clarify what you mean by new project. Do you intend a new product introduction, or are you referring to a continuous improvement project such as Six Sigma?
 

Graciel

Involved In Discussions
#5
Please clarify what you mean by new project. Do you intend a new product introduction, or are you referring to a continuous improvement project such as Six Sigma?
hI, I´m refering if I need to perform MSA to each new product, product change or process change.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
I used a drop gage to measure the thickness of product ranging from 12um through 1.1mm...same gage, same technique.

I used product from 12um through 0.010" (~250um) for the GRR, and included a "known" sheet of Mylar at 75um as one of the 10 parts.

When it came time to do 1.1mm (1100um) I considered how the gage worked (linear displacement up to 1.000inch) and chose to do a 2x2x5 R&R on parts from 0.010" through 1200um. Saw no issue, and moved on.
In the mean-time, we launched at least 60 new products in the 12um - 250um range...never even considered doing 60 more GRR's.
Apply logic...the goal is to have accurate enough measurement to know good from bad...

After establishing a "known good measuring system within these parameters"...product changes and process (for making the product) changes have nothing to do with the measurement system.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#7
I agree with the previous comments. The only reason to redo an MSA is if :
  • there is a fundamental change in the measurement system,
  • you are using the measurement system to measure a fundamentally different feature (width vs. diameter),
  • Using the device in a different way (outside diameter to inside diameter to step height for calipers)
  • measuring in an entirely different range of the device. Note: this would normally be covered by Linearity, but could have an impact on R&R for certain devices. For example, the size of the feature might affect how an operator holds the product and gage.
 
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