Should I perform several Gage R&R for every caliper to cover all specs range of use?

#1
Hello All, hope you can help me with this one,
I'm starting to plan a new gage R&R program for the calipers we use at the company I work for, the company is IATF16949 certified.
The calipers we use are 150mm length.

The different processes and products we have are with a wide variety of specs, starting from 1.5mm length, 2.5mm, 4.5mm, 11.5mm, 20mm, 25mm, 31mm, and goin up to 45mm length.
The question I have is if I should perform a gage R&R for every one of the specs, or if I should choose one of them (lets say 4.5mm) that represent all of the specs for the length characteristic?

thanks
 
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Ronen E

Problem Solver
Moderator
#2
Hello All, hope you can help me with this one,
I'm starting to plan a new gage R&R program for the calipers we use at the company I work for, the company is IATF16949 certified.
The calipers we use are 150mm length.

The different processes and products we have are with a wide variety of specs, starting from 1.5mm length, 2.5mm, 4.5mm, 11.5mm, 20mm, 25mm, 31mm, and goin up to 45mm length.
The question I have is if I should perform a gage R&R for every one of the specs, or if I should choose one of them (lets say 4.5mm) that represent all of the specs for the length characteristic?

thanks
Hi,

According to my understanding, a GR&R (or MSA) study should be specific, for a single product/component and measurement combination.

I realise that this might sometimes not be economically viable / practical. You might be able to make a "representative" assumption (that one study's results are representative of a range), but this at least needs to be clearly stated and reasoned in your documentation.

I'm not an MSA expert, though - let's hope that some (@Bev D, @Steve Prevette?) will chip in soon.

Cheers,
Ronen
 
Last edited:

Enghabashy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Hello All, hope you can help me with this one,
I'm starting to plan a new gage R&R program for the calipers we use at the company I work for, the company is IATF16949 certified.
The calipers we use are 150mm length.

The different processes and products we have are with a wide variety of specs, starting from 1.5mm length, 2.5mm, 4.5mm, 11.5mm, 20mm, 25mm, 31mm, and goin up to 45mm length.
The question I have is if I should perform a gage R&R for every one of the specs, or if I should choose one of them (lets say 4.5mm) that represent all of the specs for the length characteristic?

thanks
I see you should start from the control plan, as IATF 16949 requirement 7.1.5, the 1st reference is the control plan:
1- all measuring devices stated in control plan shall be complied with MSA ;
2-CSR relevant to DIM. Specs. , special product or process characteristics , FMEA should be referenced in control plan ;
3-the Prioritization of MSA studies should focus on critical or special product or process characteristics
 
#4
Hi,

According to my understanding, GR&R (or MSA) study should be specific, for a single product/component and measurement combination.

I realise that this might sometimes not be economically viable / practical. You might be able to make a "representative" assumption (that one study's results are representative of a range), but this at least needs to be clearly stated and reasoned in your documentation.

I'm not an MSA expert, though - let's hope that some (@Bev D, @Steve Prevette?) will chip in soon.

Cheers,
Ronen
Hello Ronen E
This is my understanding to make a GR&R for single product/specs measurement combination, but it would consume a lot of resources for time and personnel.
It is a good recommendation to state in my documentation to make representative studies, I will try to cover the smaller and the bigger specs to be representative of all the wide range of specs


Thanks
 

Steve Prevette

Deming Disciple
Leader
Super Moderator
#6
Well, I'll take a shot at it. At the pier in Reykjavik Iceland on the second week of a Norway / Iceland cruise. Three sea days back to Southampton and then a long flight home.

I'd suggest doing a linearity check similar to what you would do for a thermometer or a voltmeter - that is a pretty common plan. Then you can check a few commonly used points, and also do a linearity check to see if the calipers are behaving correctly at in between readings.

Internet capability is really poor this far north (at least what Princess uses) or I'd try to look up an existing plan.
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#10
I'm getting in late on this, but thought I would share my experiences with similar situations.
I have (in the past) treated this as a multi part problem. The first is the accuracy/repeatability of the gauge. To evaluate this, I performed a GRR study on the feature using the TIGHTEST tolerance - that will give you an initial idea of the acceptability of the gauge. If you hae a GRR <10% with a tolerance of ± 0.005", then you are (in general) safe to assume that a similar feature with a tolerance of ± 0.010" can also be accurately measured with the same gauge.
The next (as was already pointed out) is the linearity of the gauge in question. It may be accurate and repeatable at the 1-2" range, but is it as accurate and repeatable at the 6-7" range.
Because I (personally) don't think that it is, I would repeat the study on the largest feature in question.
Lastly, the geometry of the feature being measured is important - observe/attempt the measurements yourself, and see what is the most 'difficult' to accomplish - use that as your 3rd study.
If all 3 of the above give a GRR <10% then you are reasonably safe to assume that the 'intermediate' sizes will be properly evaluated.
Don't forget to check your CSR's, and that you can always talk to your customer - explain your position, what you are considering, and get their input.
 
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