Should ISO 9004 Become a Requirements Standard?

[John Broomfield]

ISO 9004 makes recommendations for the development of management systems beyond the requirements of ISO 9001.

Would turning these recommendations into requirements be useful for organizations and their suppliers working together to design and deliver a higher standard of services and products?

 

[John C. Abnet]

As noted, ISO 9004 is a useful "guide" (recommendations) , but contains (by design) no requirements for certification to ISO 9001. This question (poll) appears, to me, illogical.

ISO 9001 specifies what is expected of an ISO 9001 certified company in regards to control of external providers. That is, by design, what is intended in order to manage externally provided products and services.

Likewise, ISO 9001 compliance and/or certification by the supply chain, would achieve what I infer as the intent of this question. An additional/"redundant" QMS standard seems, well....additional and redundant.

Hope this helps.
Be well.

 

[John Broomfield]

John,

I know.

ISO 9001 is widely criticized for being ineffective so why not see if ISO 9004 would be more effective?

Broadly speaking the shoulds in 9004 would become shalls to compete with 9001.

But please vote.

Thanks,

John

 

[John C. Abnet]

Thanks @John Broomfield -
Yep....I did indeed vote.

(May I inquire as to who/where 9001 is being "...widely criticized..." and what specifically it is being criticized for? Yes, obviously 9001 and all requirements standards are widely criticized, but I am curious about within this specific context you are speaking of. Thank you!)

Hope you're well

"this" John

 

[Tagin]

Would turning these recommendations into requirements be useful for organizations and their suppliers working together to design and deliver a higher standard of services and products?

Your post title says "Should ISO 9004 specify requirements for suppliers?"; whereas your poll question is more generically "ISO 9004 should become a requirements standard". So, I'm not quite sure exactly what role you want 9004 to play.

Along the lines of orgs and suppliers working together, I think it would be preferable to instead have a specific supply chain risk management standard. Although one can argue that such risk mgmt falls within the scope of 9001, it seems to me that a more topic-specific standard is possible. just as business continuity risk mgmt can be said to fall within 9001 yet ISO also has a specific BC standard.

 

[John Broomfield]

Along the lines of orgs and suppliers working together, I think it would be preferable to instead have a specific supply chain risk management standard. Although one can argue that such risk mgmt falls within the scope of 9001, it seems to me that a more topic-specific standard is possible. just as business continuity risk mgmt can be said to fall within 9001 yet ISO also has a specific BC standard.

Tagin,

That’s another idea to take up with your national standards maker.

I’m trying simply to see what support we have for ISO 9004 working as a requirements standard to compete against ISO 9001 or to give organizations (suppliers) and opportunity to upgrade their certification.

Although, I didn’t really want to turn this poll into yet another discussion about certification.

Thank you for your vote,

John

 

[Cari Spears]

I’m trying simply to see what support we have for ISO 9004 working as a requirements standard to compete against ISO 9001 or to give organizations (suppliers) and opportunity to upgrade their certification.

I think the title of your thread is causing some confusion - I know I thought it was something other than what you stated in the quoted post. Maybe if it was "Should ISO9004 Become a Requirements Standard?"... or "Should some of the guidance in ISO9004 become ISO9001 requirements?"...

 

[John Broomfield]

Carl,

Excellent suggestion.

Thanks,

John

 

[Sidney Vianna]

In the USA, Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award was perceived as the pinnacle of quality. Just like ISO 9001, enough window dressing gets you the badge/medal/award....

 

[John Broomfield]

In the USA, Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award was perceived as the pinnacle of quality. Just like ISO 9001, enough window dressing gets you the badge/medal/award....

Sure, but I’ve not heard of it being used as criteria to select suppliers.