Should Loading and Unloading be Included in Cycle Times?

#1
In a Mass production unit..making 500 units per 8 hour shift..do we include loading and unloading times of jobs in the Cycle time.

The Production manager has given 15 Seconds for loading and unloading in addition to processing/cutting time of 45 seconds.

A small error in the loading and unloading times gives lot of free time to the operator and OEE is coming as 90-92%.

Also if Loading and unloading times are taken as part of Ideal cycle time how can we take steps to reduce loading and unloading times which is actually a NVA.

Thanks in advance.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#2
In a Mass production unit..making 500 units per 8 hour shift..do we include loading and unloading times of jobs in the Cycle time.

The Production manager has given 15 Seconds for loading and unloading in addition to processing/cutting time of 45 seconds.

A small error in the loading and unloading times gives lot of free time to the operator and OEE is coming as 90-92%.

Also if Loading and unloading times are taken as part of Ideal cycle time how can we take steps to reduce loading and unloading times which is actually a NVA.

Thanks in advance.
Could you explain the task of loading and unloading?
Load and unload what?
 

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#3
In a Mass production unit..making 500 units per 8 hour shift..do we include loading and unloading times of jobs in the Cycle time.

The Production manager has given 15 Seconds for loading and unloading in addition to processing/cutting time of 45 seconds.

A small error in the loading and unloading times gives lot of free time to the operator and OEE is coming as 90-92%.

Also if Loading and unloading times are taken as part of Ideal cycle time how can we take steps to reduce loading and unloading times which is actually a NVA.

Thanks in advance.
In a Mass production unit..making 500 units per 8 hour shift..do we include loading and unloading times of jobs in the Cycle time.

The Production manager has given 15 Seconds for loading and unloading in addition to processing/cutting time of 45 seconds.

A small error in the loading and unloading times gives lot of free time to the operator and OEE is coming as 90-92%.

Also if Loading and unloading times are taken as part of Ideal cycle time how can we take steps to reduce loading and unloading times which is actually a NVA.

Thanks in advance.
It is easy, if loading and unloading are activities needed for the process, should be included into the cycle time.

Why do you say they are nva? If you say that, it could be that they nva, but are needed, thus have to remain there.
Unless they are smed or setup and can be reduced.
Give us a little explanation.
 

AMIT BALLAL

Trusted Information Resource
#4
@qualprod, I beg to differ with you. Value is defined by the customer, for which the customer is willing to pay. And the customer will only pay for the process (manufacturing process), not loading & unloading.
Identification of NVAs should be done only after defining VAs. Other than VAs, everything is NVA.
Unless you define "Loading, unloading" as waste, no action would be taken on them to either reduce/remove waste. And people will tend to ignore these NVAs as in the case of the poster.
 

mattador78

Involved In Discussions
#5
In a Mass production unit..making 500 units per 8 hour shift..do we include loading and unloading times of jobs in the Cycle time.

The Production manager has given 15 Seconds for loading and unloading in addition to processing/cutting time of 45 seconds.

A small error in the loading and unloading times gives lot of free time to the operator and OEE is coming as 90-92%.

Also if Loading and unloading times are taken as part of Ideal cycle time how can we take steps to reduce loading and unloading times which is actually a NVA.

Thanks in advance.
In principal that would depend on the price at quotation dependent upon the job itself. We coat metals and the difficulty of the job to load and unload on to our production line is factored into the price. I appreciate that that varies dependent upon the the process performed and as said above it is the value to the customer so this is made aware here at quotation and contract review
 

John Predmore

Trusted Information Resource
#6
The cycle time is the start of one machine cycle to the start of the next machine cycle (or use some other reference point in the sequence).

To reduce NVA time for loading and unloading, perhaps the two actions might be done simultaneously, for example, when the operator uses both hands. Perhaps in-going parts could be stacked side-by-side in a track during those seconds when the operator is standing idle, and at the right moment in the cycle, the operator advances the stack so one in-going part moves into the fixture, pushing out the completed part to slide down a chute in the back of the machine. In this way, the time to manually pickup and orient parts, while still a NVA action according the definition offered by @AMIT BALLAL, is done in parallel with the machine cycle and does not add seconds to the overall cycle time. Obviously, I have not seen your parts so this generic idea may not work for your application, but I am offering one idea how load/unload time could be reduced.
 

outdoorsNW

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
In terms of throughput, the non value add vs value add is a distraction. Regardless of which it is, reducing total time required, if it does not cause quality problem or other negative effects, is good. In a machining operation, cutting metal is value add. If the feed rate is increased, processing time will be reduced.
 

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#8
In terms of throughput, the non value add vs value add is a distraction. Regardless of which it is, reducing total time required, if it does not cause quality problem or other negative effects, is good. In a machining operation, cutting metal is value add. If the feed rate is increased, processing time will be reduced.
I wanted to meant in other way.
A NVA, as is defined "What the customer is willing to pay"
But in practice, the customer only "see" the cost in the RFQ, the OTD, quality, and , normally we don´t show to customer all the activities
involved in a product, as to wait an approval of what is NVA or not.
If customer accepts your price and general conditions of the product, that is enough.
Now internally if into your process, you have some activitities which are NVA, ok, is the way you work, nobody
will come to change your process, while you met your customer´s requirements.
It is understandable that you will focus on the NVA in order to improve the process, but is very common that NVA´s exist into the processes because
can´t be easily eliminated, because of the nature of the process or because the change is very costly.
I´m not an expert in this field, but I have seen this happens in manufacturing companies.

Hope it helps
 

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#10
The machining process involves rings of around 50- 80mm in dia and 30 mm width.. may be 1-2 kg weight per piece.and done in CNC TURNING CENTRES.
Jay
The more you describe in detail the process the more you will receive some help.
for example.
1. The operator receives the work order, registers the starting in a computer, takes 180 seconds
2- Put the switch ON the machine, 120 seconds
2- Move the raw material from the loading area by using a truck 40 seconds
4- Load the raw material onto the CNC machine
5- Run a setup activity or Chang over C/T (prepare the machine to star cutting)
6-etc.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
John Broomfield Vote - Should ISO9004 Become a Requirements Standard? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
A Capability Study - in the beginning of your career what should you have known about the tool Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 11
E Manufacturers should develop a testing device for covid19 Service Industry Specific Topics 0
T 510(k) submission - Which name should I use in the submission? Other US Medical Device Regulations 3
N ISO 19011:2018 - 5.4.2 "...audit program should engage in appropriate continual development..." Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 4
G Should I perform Gage R&R only at the beginning of a new project? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 6
DuncanGibbons Should the requirements FAA/EASA Part 21 be addressed within the QMS and AS9100D quality manual? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
M Should 510(k) Predicates be Actively Listed Devices? Other US Medical Device Regulations 12
B Why the Greek god Hephaestus should have done a design FMEA (DFMEA) on his giant robot APQP and PPAP 1
J On PFMEA for danger labels - Label always should be assigned severity 10 ? FMEA and Control Plans 3
H Who should be listed as the manufacturer/distributor on the box? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 15
M MDR, RED and LVD - Should our device comply with them? EU Medical Device Regulations 2
BeaBea How Many Processes should be created for each Department? Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 5
M Should volume of sales be factored into risk probability assessments? ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 33
MrTetris Should potential bugs be considered in software risk analysis? ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 5
S Should safety checks be included in the Control Plan? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
M Which incubation condition should be selected to recover both bacteria and fungus effectively Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 3
D Is there a specific location for PPE such as safety glass holders and glove dispensers should be mounted Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 10
Robert Stanley Which Registrar Should I Choose for ISO 9001:2015 registration? Registrars and Notified Bodies 10
M Who should receive the bills from suppliers and vendors, account payable or procurement? Consultants and Consulting 4
V IATF 16949 8.4.1 Control of externally provided processes, products and services - Should the CB be on our Approved Supplier List? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
A We are ISO 13485:2016 should we be audited to ISO 14971 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 16
E Received a Major finding during IATF Surveillance audit for loss of BIQS Level 3 (more than 6 SPPS in 6 months)...how should we address SYSTEMIC CA? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
J Organization merger. Should we keep two separate ISO 13485 certificates? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
S Companies that maintain your machine should be in ASL? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
S Use of "Shall" versus "Should" in Procedures ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 21
D Class II medical device - When should a complaint be closed? Customer Complaints 6
Sidney Vianna IATF 16949 News Presentations from the latest IATF Stakeholder Event - Expectation that IATF 16949 certification should equate with product quality. Misguided? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
L Clause 0.4 of ISO 9001 and EHS - Where should I stop the inclusion of EHS in my QMS ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
Ed Panek Part 11 Self Certify Memo - What else should it cover? Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 5
H Should I mention machine/Equipment password In SOP? Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 4
D How long should we keep the spare parts available for our medical device, after we have stopped the production? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 0
H Statistical Techniques Procedure - What should be included Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 4
Q How should I analyze measurement correlation between me and customer? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 12
Sidney Vianna Interesting Discussion ISO 9001:2024 - What should be changed in the next Edition of ISO 9001? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 98
N Should it even be on the hazard analysis (software)? FMEA and Control Plans 2
V Which batches should or could be considered for design validation and design verification? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 0
L A Taiwan company want to sell Class I medical device (510(k) exempt) on Amazon, should we register with FDA? US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 4
M Routine testing of medical electrical systems - What specific electrical safety tests should be performed? IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 5
G ISO 17025:2017 7.1.2 - Should I produce a document for the customer? ISO 17025 related Discussions 8
F Quality Objectives - Where in the QMS Quality Objectives should be located ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
P ISO 80369-7 standard - Interpreting which Parts should be in scope Other Medical Device Related Standards 7
V Who should define and own the Design and Development Plan and how to maintain the updates and revisions. ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
A How should the Medical Device OEMs be declared to ANVISA? Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 0
D Should "Waste" be included as Output in SIPOC Chart? Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 8
N Control plan evaluation methods - Which methods should be carried over from the PFMEA? FMEA and Control Plans 3
A PFMEA - How long should the recommended actions remain in the recommended actions column? APQP and PPAP 3
M Should Quality be an independent organization in aerospace company? Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 25
S Should there be a SOP on Cybersecurity? ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 1
B AS9102 FAI & Lower Level Drawings - How should we perform the FAI? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1

Similar threads

Top Bottom