Should Preventative Action follow a Corrective Action

C

Christopher S

#1
Hi

I was thinking about workflow process after a corrective action has been issued. Do we wait until the corrective action has been implemented, checked and accepted before issuing a preventative action?

Or, should a PA and a CA operate in parallel? In other words I issue a PA immediately after the CA has been issued.

My gut feel is to pick the first route as I can get the comments from the implementation of CA and then including them in the PA.

Any views about this?

Regards

Christopher
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Hi

I was thinking about workflow process after a corrective action has been issued. Do we wait until the corrective action has been implemented, checked and accepted before issuing a preventative action?

Or, should a PA and a CA operate in parallel? In other words I issue a PA immediately after the CA has been issued.

My gut feel is to pick the first route as I can get the comments from the implementation of CA and then including them in the PA.

Any views about this?

Regards

Christopher
This topic has been exhaustively discussed here at The Cove Forums. Have you studied the intent of CA and PA?
When you scroll down this page, you'll find links. Also a search on these topics will provide you with a ton of excellent information.

Stijloor.
 
C

Christopher S

#3
Thank you for directing me to the previous posts about this subject. I am new to this forum and have found it hard to navigate around it. I will get there eventually

Now having read the previous posts I am now going to treat CA and PA as two seperate processes and provide the flexibility to issue a PA on its own, in parrallel with a CA or after a CA has been implemented, checked and accepted.

Regards

Christopher
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Thank you for directing me to the previous posts about this subject. I am new to this forum and have found it hard to navigate around it. I will get there eventually

Now having read the previous posts I am now going to treat CA and PA as two seperate processes and provide the flexibility to issue a PA on its own, in parrallel with a CA or after a CA has been implemented, checked and accepted.

Regards

Christopher
I usually use the advanced search function.

Corrective Action.

Preventive Action.

Stijloor.
 
M

miahokie

#5
Hi

I was thinking about workflow process after a corrective action has been issued. Do we wait until the corrective action has been implemented, checked and accepted before issuing a preventative action?

Or, should a PA and a CA operate in parallel? In other words I issue a PA immediately after the CA has been issued.

My gut feel is to pick the first route as I can get the comments from the implementation of CA and then including them in the PA.

Any views about this?

Regards

Christopher
A preventive action is a suggestion/ idea to prevent future non conformances or problems.A pre incident action. For Example, suggesting you purchase a bar code job costing system to become more efficient because you are doing more time and material jobs.

A corrective action is to correct an action that has caused a non conformance. A post incident action. If you are scrapping parts, you need to do a corrective action because you are not satisfying the customer requirements.

Hope this helps.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#6
A preventive action is a suggestion/ idea to prevent future non conformances or problems.
Wrong.....Preventive actions are not optional

ISO 9000:2005; 3.6.4 preventive action -
action to eliminate the cause of a potential nonconformity (3.6.2) or other undesirable potential situation
NOTE 1 There can be more than one cause for a potential nonconformity.
NOTE 2 Preventive action is taken to prevent occurrence whereas corrective action (3.6.5) is taken to prevent recurrence.

ISO 9001:2008; 8.5.3 Preventive action - The organization shall determine action to eliminate the causes of potential nonconformities in order to prevent their occurrence. Preventive actions shall be appropriate to the effects of the potential problems.


If you are scrapping parts, you need to do a corrective action because you are not satisfying the customer requirements.
May be incorrect as well. You might be scrapping parts because the customer ordered you to scrap them even if they meet all other requirements.

Use the standard and don't make assumptions.
 
M

miahokie

#7
I don't believe I implied Preventive Actions are optional. Second, I was just trying to give simple examples of the difference.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#8
Wrong.....Preventive actions are not optional

ISO 9000:2005; 3.6.4 preventive action -
action to eliminate the cause of a potential nonconformity (3.6.2) or other undesirable potential situation
NOTE 1 There can be more than one cause for a potential nonconformity.
NOTE 2 Preventive action is taken to prevent occurrence whereas corrective action (3.6.5) is taken to prevent recurrence.

ISO 9001:2008; 8.5.3 Preventive action - The organization shall determine action to eliminate the causes of potential nonconformities in order to prevent their occurrence. Preventive actions shall be appropriate to the effects of the potential problems.


May be incorrect as well. You might be scrapping parts because the customer ordered you to scrap them even if they meet all other requirements.

Use the standard and don't make assumptions.
I don't see anything in the wording to make it mandatory to find and record ALL potential nonconformances. In that sense it IS optional.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#10
He said a preventive action is a suggestion/idea. He didn't say that all preventive action is optional.
If it's identified as a Preventive Action within the QMS it's not optional what you do with it. If an identified Preventive Action is not addressed as such and according to 8.5.3, then the lack of action becomes a nonconformity itself.


I don't see anything in the wording to make it mandatory to find and record ALL potential nonconformances.
Didn't say that did I? Refer to the above.

A preventive action is a suggestion/ idea to prevent future non conformances or problems.
Look at the definition of Preventive Action above....the definition is non-negotiable and when one is recorded within a 9001 based QMS it's not a suggestion
 
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