Should Serial # of all Measurement Instruments (Calipers,etc) be in Control Plans?

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GeorgeEd

Should be added the measurement instrument (caliper, micrometer) and equipment series number on the CP? We have the SQE from Chrysler asking us to register all series number on the CP. Is it something mentioned on the PSO 5th edition or APQP ?

Someone could help me with this question?
 
W

world quality

Re: In Control Plan, all measurement instrument (caliper, micrometer) ser should be a

UN TS16949,

This is why this is staying a technical standard and this is where the line states customer requirements.

All they have to do is to tell you what they want and they donot have to give it to you in writing.

Ford is not as bad as GM, and Chrysler, is but they will have it there way.

This was put out at the FMEA training in OHIO, from AIAG.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Trusted Information Resource
Re: In Control Plan, all measurement instrument (caliper, micrometer) ser should be a

I have never seen a requirement from Chrysler to identify individual serial numbers of measuring equipment on the control plan. It's not a requirement of TS 16949, it's not a requirement of the AIAG APQP/Control Plan manual, and it's not in the Chrysler Customer-Specifice Requirements. Generally what I see when I'm auditing is just the gage type (measuring instrument).

All they have to do is to tell you what they want and they donot have to give it to you in writing.

That's an interesting theory, but I don't believe it. If your customers decided that you should ship everything to them for free, what would you do?

Customer requirements need to be determined and agreed upon. Chrysler has their "Chrysler Customer-Specific Requirements For Use With ISO/TS 16949 Second Edition" and it specifies what they require over and above TS 16949. Anything additional to this should be in the contract/purchase order that was agreed to before your company agreed to provide product. This should all be addressed in the requirements of TS 16949 clauses 7.2.1 and 7.2.2.
 

Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
Re: In Control Plan, all measurement instrument (caliper, micrometer) ser should be a

Should be added the measurement instrument (caliper, micrometer) and equipment series number on the CP? We have the SQE from Chrysler asking us to register all series number on the CP. Is it something mentioned on the PSO 5th edition or APQP ?

Someone could help me with this question?

I am not aware of this requirement in APQP or PPAP. If it is, it can create a lot of work (a potential nightmare) (switching out calipers for calibration or when they break require a control plan update per your document control procedures).

I would fight it tooth and nail.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
Re: Should Serial # of all Measurement Instruments (Calipers,etc) be in Control Plans

Should be added the measurement instrument (caliper, micrometer) and equipment series number on the CP?

If anyone insists on putting serial number on control plan, make sure you charge them extra. It is absurd. Would the customer want to approve the control plan update, too? It would be as bad as re-PPAPing if you replaced a gage.

Gages need to be put out of service, or swapped out for calibration and repair. Your gage system tracks that - not control plan. You do want to cite the type of gage, as it makes a difference (plus, it is an important clue for the operators) - but not the specific number of the specific gage.
 
P

Petar Sakic

Re: Should Serial # of all Measurement Instruments (Calipers,etc) be in Control Plans

We had a similar case, in control sheet, QC person was signed and stamped, and measurement method stated (digital caliper or something).

So auditor said we need to state s/n of the caliper on the control sheet.

I argued that it was absurd, as we have complete database of measurement equipment and list showing who was using what from when to when, so all is traceable and certified, and we really don't need to know what gage was used for what measurement...

In my oppinion, traceability is far more important then stating all information everywhere.
All the papers regarding gages, people, control methods or statistics can be easily and quickly found in QC headquarters :cool:
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
Re: Should Serial # of all Measurement Instruments (Calipers,etc) be in Control Plans

If anyone insists on putting serial number on control plan, make sure you charge them extra. It is absurd.

I agree, and it is also a bad use of their bailout money. ;)

Stijloor.
 
P

Petar Sakic

Re: Should Serial # of all Measurement Instruments (Calipers,etc) be in Control Plans

If anyone insists on putting serial number on control plan, make sure you charge them extra. ...

this is a good advice indeed... often the customer wishes all kinds of certificates, control plans, zero defect, etc..., but if they are given price list for EN10204 certificates 2.2, 3.1, 3.2... they suddenly remember that just any paper stating quality of the goods is quite sufficient, thank you very much :cool:
 
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