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Should Staff be allowed to see Management Review Meeting Minutes?

Q

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#11
#11
Obstacle3 said:
Too true but it becomes a burden when people that are still using forms that should be electronic are being told off because off a document number anomoly!

What I am trying to say is that the management review minutes are the least of their interest anyway.
What staff want from the quality management system is real improvement, not limp-wristed document control management. I have managed to save time and money through putting my energy int improving processes...not lecturing staff bout the thickness of their pencils.

The only thing the CB could find last time they were here was "not all documents are in the register" my response 'only documents that affect product quality need to be in there, and they all are'.

and "not all business department processes are documented" and my response was 'all processes that affect product quality are'.

Followup audit next week, i get the feeling this process is redundant because an auditor that visits you 3 days a year has no possible hope of understanding the business and findign real gaps
Click to expand...
Let us know what the results will be. However , audit is a sampling process and quality standards are very general. The external auditor that audit you shall be competent as per ISO 19011 guideline. It seems strange that you do not perceive him/her as such. If you are not satisfied of your CB, you could evaluate the chance to change it. You shall see value in their external audit to improve processes.:bigwave:
 
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O

Obstacle3

#12
#12
Nah they are very competent, but its almost like they have to write "something" so the document control thing comes up everytime!
 
Q

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#13
#13
Obstacle3 said:
Nah they are very competent, but its almost like they have to write "something" so the document control thing comes up everytime!
Click to expand...
Are you saying that this "something" is to justify their job in auditing your organization?:(

Did your ever respond to a customer evaluation for their services???:bigwave:

Another question: which kind of findings and strenghths do you usually find in your internal audit programme for your QMS processes?
Are of the same kind or do they differ from CB ones?
 
Last edited:
Claes Gefvenberg

Claes Gefvenberg

Admin
#15
#15
I audited a small company (About 20 people) once and got a rather unusual answer when I asked about the MR participants: -Everyone... That made me raise an eyebrow.

Yep, the entire staff was not only privy to the minutes, but also invited and encouraged to take part in the meeting. Not bad, eh?

/Claes
 
J

JaneB

#16
#16
Claes Gefvenberg said:
I audited a small company (About 20 people) once and got a rather unusual answer when I asked about the MR participants: -Everyone... That made me raise an eyebrow.

Yep, the entire staff was not only privy to the minutes, but also invited and encouraged to take part in the meeting. Not bad, eh?

/Claes
Click to expand...
Fantastic. That's a smart and enlightened company.
 
J

JaneB

#17
#17
Obstacle3 said:
If I stapled the quality statement to people eyelids, they wouldnt be able to quote it around here if you catch my drift
Click to expand...
Questions:
Is the quality statement in language that makes sense to them? Does it say something they understand?

They may not be able to 'quote' it but do they more or less understand what's in it and do that?

I've consulted and audited companies where no, people couldn't 'quote' the quality statement but by jingo, they took pride in their work and did a good job, and if you asked 'em what their company position was, they could more or less come up with something remarkably similar to the company statement, but in their own words. To me, that's ideal.
 
J

JaneB

#18
#18
Obstacle3 said:
Followup audit next week, i get the feeling this process is redundant because an auditor that visits you 3 days a year has no possible hope of understanding the business and findign real gaps
Click to expand...
A good auditor most certainly can and will find 'real gaps' if they are there (of course). Consider finding a better auditor and/or better certifier.

But oh, I do agree with you that it is (or should be) about improvement, not document control minutiae.
 
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