Should The Management Representative be a Manager?

[Matt M - 2009]

Re: The Management Representative should be Manager?

I am the Management rep at my company. My official title, according to the little box of cards I have, is "ISO Coordinator". Though I have other duties which fall under the "Quality Engineer/Process Engineer" scope. My company defines the role of ISO coordinator clearly giving the authority to carry out the responsibilities. So though I do not have the word "manager" in my job title, my role is supported and taken seriously by top management.

I think every company is different. I report to the Quality Manager for day to day activities, but when it comes to the QMS, I report to the Vice President/General Manager and there has not been a problem with me doing what I need to do. How many others on the site here have this type of situation, where you report to more than one boss being the Management Rep?

 

[Sam4Quality]

Re: The Management Representative should be Manager?

Originally Posted by Matt M

I think every company is different. I report to the Quality Manager for day to day activities, but when it comes to the QMS, I report to the Vice President/General Manager and there has not been a problem with me doing what I need to do. How many others on the site here have this type of situation, where you report to more than one boss being the Management Rep?

Goes to show the extent of clarity in defining roles and responsibilties in your company. Commendable . Unfortunately, most companies in the middle east are decades behind in developing and implementing even basic QMS practices. And the auditors add the icing on the cake!

Ciao.


_______________________
Sincererly, SAM
"To achieve the impossible, it is precisely the unthinkable that must be thought!"

 

[MrPhish]

Looks like the key to this question is the AUTHORITY the Man Rep has over the QMS.

How about the Man Rep being an outside consultant? i.e. not an employee of the company or organization, as long as the non-employee/consultant has been given the AUTHORITY over the QMS and is listed as a member of the management team?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: The Management Representative should be Manager?

There you go again.....

ISO 9000:2005; 3.3.1, Organization - group of people and facilities with an arrangement of responsibilities, authorities and relationships
EXAMPLE Company, corporation, firm, enterprise, institution, charity, sole trader, association, or parts or combination thereof.
NOTE 1 The arrangement is generally orderly.
NOTE 2 An organization can be public or private.
NOTE 3 This definition is valid for the purposes of quality management system (3.2.3) standards.

ISO 9000:2005; 3.2.6, Management - coordinated activities to direct and control an organization (3.3.1)
NOTE In English, the term “management” sometimes refers to people, i.e. a person or group of people with authority and responsibility for the conduct and control of an organization. When “management” is used in this sense, it should always be used with some form of qualifier to avoid confusion with the concept “management” defined above. For example, “management shall…” is deprecated whereas “top management (3.2.7) shall…” is acceptable.

Therefore "organization's management" is defined

I don't know how I missed this six months ago, but now that the thread has been bumped...

Had you actually comprehended what I wrote before commenting, you would have noted that I did not say that there is no normative definition of "organization's management." What I did say that there is no normative definition of "...member of the organization's management." Big difference. Who qualifies? Must the MR candidate be a preexisting member of management? Does appointment as MR automatically qualify the candidate as a member of management though yesterday she was the janitor? Can an outside agent (e.g., a consultant) be considered a member of management? Please be prepared to support your answers to those questions with citations.

BTW, with regard to "There you go again.....," if you can point me to a post where I "went" previously and was wrong, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Marc]

General Notice: Please - Maintain your professionalism (this applies to everyone). Let's not get personal in posts, folks.

Thanks!

 

[vanputten]

I always thought that the intent of ISO 9001, was that when the organization gives the title of Mngmt. Rep. to anyone, that also gives them the authority to maintain the QMS. I never thought the Mgmt Rep had to have the authority before getting the title. I thought that the intent of the standard was that giving the title also included the authority. I thought that any organization accepting ISO 9001, also would have to accept that whomever is given the title of Mgmt. Rep is also given the responsibility and authority to maintain the QMS.

I have never seen this acutally practiced but that is my understanding of the intent of clause 5.5.2.

I have only seen people get the title and then delegate the responsibility to someone who has no authority.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

I thought that any organization accepting ISO 9001, also would have to accept that whomever is given the title of Mgmt. Rep is also given the responsibility and authority to maintain the QMS.

In my opinion, to expect that a "lowly" quality coordinator, several pay grades lower than the VP of Engineering, would have the "authority" to tell this VP that s/he better ensure that design reviews are performed and recorded, because ISO 9001 requires that, is unrealistic.

That is why, making anyone low in the organization chart the "Management Representative" is destined to fail, in my opinion and experience.

 

[MrPhish]

Does anyone think under the "new" 2008 revision a non-employee (i.e. subcontractor) can be assigned as the Management Rep? I've seen both cases defended on the Internet and thought the Cove is the best place to get a definitive answer.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Does anyone think under the "new" 2008 revision a non-employee (i.e. subcontractor) can be assigned as the Management Rep? I've seen both cases defended on the Internet and thought the Cove is the best place to get a definitive answer.

This ISO TC 176 interpretation has answered the question. There is nothing in the ISO 9001:2008 Edition which would void this interpretation, in my opinion.

 

[Jim Wynne]

This ISO TC 176 interpretation has answered the question. There is nothing in the ISO 9001:2008 Edition which would void this interpretation, in my opinion.

Note that in the interpretation, the question is about a contractor who works full-time for the company, which affects its applicability, I think.