Should The Management Representative be a Manager?

[JaneB]

In my world, the best management reps lead the implementation and maintenance of an effective system by first understanding the intent of the requirements and how they can benefit the organization. Then with patience and persuasion, they work with management (or better yet, leadership) and process owners to do the right things for the right reasons. Seek to understand, then diagnose (Stephen Covey).

This is true in my world too. I don't think the concept is destined to fail, indeed the reverse. It doesn't mean they have to do it all themselves, parts/most can and often should be delegated to others (and no, not dumped on 'ISO-vics' per Stijhloor.

But too often, no one actually has the responsibility and authority overall for the system. I think making this a distinct role, and requiring it is a good idea.

 

[amanbhai]

Re: The Management Representative should be Manager?

I am the Management rep at my company. My official title, according to the little box of cards I have, is "ISO Coordinator". Though I have other duties which fall under the "Quality Engineer/Process Engineer" scope. My company defines the role of ISO coordinator clearly giving the authority to carry out the responsibilities. So though I do not have the word "manager" in my job title, my role is supported and taken seriously by top management.

I think every company is different. I report to the Quality Manager for day to day activities, but when it comes to the QMS, I report to the Vice President/General Manager and there has not been a problem with me doing what I need to do. How many others on the site here have this type of situation, where you report to more than one boss being the Management Rep?

I am the Management representative and report to the highest level of management for ISO standards. Well the title is " QMR"
I am reporting to multiple bosses for multiple standards. but the final reporing is to the managing director.

 

[Tony C]

Now, even if they've been appointed, I've never seen a management representative with real authority that didn't earn it somehow anyway. Without competence and trust, they usually get nowhere. In my world, the best management reps lead the implementation and maintenance of an effective system by first understanding the intent of the requirements and how they can benefit the organization. Then with patience and persuasion, they work with management (or better yet, leadership) and process owners to do the right things for the right reasons.

Absolutely and this is why the choice of the management representative is of fundamental importance to the organisation and the effectiveness of the QMS.

Regards,

Tony

 

[Randy]

Authority? Responsibility?

Could the senior executive assistant (personal secretary) to the highest member of "management" be the MR?

Who actually has more infleuence across an organization "The Gatekeeper" or the minions just below the boss? Who really controls the flow of information and serves as a primary sounding board?

Judi and I have a young lady that refers to us as Grandma & Grandpa and occupies just such a position for a major-major manufacturer here in the US. She isn't on the Board of Directors and is not on the "Leadership" org chart, but she is in a position of presumed authority because of her position right outside the door...when she talks it is as if the boss is talking and folks talk to her before the boss. Could she be the MR?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Authority? Responsibility?

Could the senior executive assistant (personal secretary) to the highest member of "management" be the MR?

Who actually has more infleuence across an organization "The Gatekeeper" or the minions just below the boss? Who really controls the flow of information and serves as a primary sounding board?

Judi and I have a young lady that refers to us as Grandma & Grandpa and occupies just such a position for a major-major manufacturer here in the US. She isn't on the Board of Directors and is not on the "Leadership" org chart, but she is in a position of presumed authority because of her position right outside the door...when she talks it is as if the boss is talking and folks talk to her before the boss. Could she be the MR?

Is she a member of the organization's management?

 

[Randy]

Is she a member of the organization's management?

I gave the conditions, so what do you think? Is being in management title related or authority related (presumed or real)?

 

[Jim Wynne]

I gave the conditions, so what do you think? Is being in management title related or authority related (presumed or real)?

I don't know, which is why I said earlier that due to the lack of a normative definition of "member of the organization's management" we're left to guess at what was intended.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

If anyone still has a doubt that the appointment of the MR must be accompanied with the necessary authority, otherwise you are destined to fail, just read the Lack of Management Commitment and Cooperation in Implementation of QMS! thread.

 

[Stijloor]

If anyone still has a doubt that the appointment of the MR must be accompanied with the necessary authority, otherwise you are destined to fail, just read the Lack of Management Commitment and Cooperation in Implementation of QMS! thread.

This ongoing discussion and obvious levels of frustration can be resolved by TC176 with the following amendment to ISO 9001:2008:

5.5.2 Management representative

The President of the organization shall be the Management Representative and shall have responsibility and authority that shall include......

Problem solved.

Stijloor.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

This ongoing discussion and obvious levels of frustration can be resolved by TC176 with the following amendment to ISO 9001:2008:

5.5.2 Management representative

The President of the organization shall be the Management Representative and shall have responsibility and authority that shall include......

Problem solved.

Stijloor.

Interesting idea. But as you know, the first thing the president would do would be to delegate the responsibility, which would bring us to status quo.

A novel(?) idea: Enforce the requirement about competence to top management :mg:. Doesn't the "work" of top management affect product quality, after all?