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SI 5 06 - ISO/TS 169494:2002 7.4.1.2 Supplier quality management system development

Sidney Vianna

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#1
SI 5 06 - ISO/TS 169494:2002 7.4.1.2 Supplier quality management system development
(New, adopted December 2006)

The organization shall perform supplier quality management system development with the goal of supplier conformity with this Technical Specification. Conformity with ISO 9001:2000 demonstrated by a certification by an accredited third party certification/registration body or through a second party audit process is the first step in achieving this goal.

The organization’s second party audit process shall be consistent with the automotive process approach, including evidence of planning, supplier readiness and supplier performance. (See also ISO 17021:2006), Section 9. In addition, the second party process shall be defined according to the principles detailed in the sections 5, 6, 7 of the ISO 19011:2002 regarding the management of the audit program, the audit activities and the competence of the auditors. Records of the audits reports shall be maintained.
After the initial audit, the second party surveillance audits shall be conducted at least annually.
The prioritization of suppliers for development depends upon, for example, the supplier’s quality performance and the importance of the product supplied.
The organization shall have decision criteria for determining “specially designated small suppliers” wherein certain specified elements of ISO 9001:2000 or ISO/TS 16949: 2002 may be waived. Records of the established criteria and decision taken accordingly shall be maintained. “Small” here above may refer to the volume supplied to the automotive industry or to the organization .
Refer to OEM Vehicle Manufacturer customer specifics for 2nd Party audit requirements for the organization who is a direct supplier to the OEM.
 
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Howard Atkins

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#2
Re: Supplier Development

I have started a new thread by copying this post from Sidney Vianna.
A big thanks to Sidney who is constantly keeping us updated with the hottest news:applause: :applause:
This interpretation as I understand it changes completely the standard by adding words

SI
The organization shall perform supplier quality management system development with the goal of supplier conformity with this Technical Specification. Conformity with ISO 9001:2000 demonstrated by a certification by an accredited third party certification/registration body or through a second party audit process is the first step in achieving this goal.

The organization shall have decision criteria for determining “specially designated small suppliers” wherein certain specified elements of ISO 9001:2000 or ISO/TS 16949: 2002 may be waived.
7.4.1.2
The organization shall perform supplier quality management system development with the goal of supplier conformity with this Technical Specification. Conformity with ISO 9001:2000 is the first step in achieving this goal.
NOTE The prioritization of suppliers for development depends upon, for example, the supplier’s quality performance and the importance of the product supplied.
Unless otherwise specified by the customer, suppliers to the organization shall be third party registered to ISO 9001:2000 by an accredited third-party certification body.
Is this because there was so many problems in companies becoming certification?
 
#3
Re: SI 5 06 - ISO/TS 169494:2002 7.4.1.2 Supplier quality management system developme

Before my head explodes:
If my customer has already waived the requirement for third-party ISO9001 registration, do I need to go back and get them to waive 2nd party audits as well?

I have a dozen suppliers of custom components that I consider small. They ship me less than 1,000 parts per year that end up in an automotive application. The burden of 2nd party auditing them and generating enough records to satisfy my DNV auditor is not justified based on the quality & quantity delivered.

On the up side - lacking a customer waiver - this allows a way for people to use suppliers that will never ISO9001 register, without running afoul of 7.4.1.2.
 
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#4
Re: Supplier Development

Is this because there was so many problems in companies becoming certification?
Many of us have high quality suppliers that are small, employee-owned outfits. They deliver quality product that would shame some large ISO registered companies. They have absolutely nothing to gain by registering to ISO9001. They view the whole 3rd party registration system as so much bureaucratic silliness. In my system, moving product from them to an ISO registered supplier would cause a decrease in end product quality.
 

Douglas E. Purdy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
Re: SI 5 06 - ISO/TS 169494:2002 7.4.1.2 Supplier quality management system developme

SI 5 06 - ISO/TS 169494:2002 7.4.1.2 Supplier quality management system development
(New, adopted December 2006)

The organization shall perform supplier quality management system development with the goal of supplier conformity with this Technical Specification. Conformity with ISO 9001:2000 demonstrated by a certification by an accredited third party certification/registration body or through a second party audit process is the first step in achieving this goal.

The organization’s second party audit process shall be consistent with the automotive process approach, including evidence of planning, supplier readiness and supplier performance. (See also ISO 17021:2006), Section 9. In addition, the second party process shall be defined according to the principles detailed in the sections 5, 6, 7 of the ISO 19011:2002 regarding the management of the audit program, the audit activities and the competence of the auditors. Records of the audits reports shall be maintained.
After the initial audit, the second party surveillance audits shall be conducted at least annually.
The prioritization of suppliers for development depends upon, for example, the supplier’s quality performance and the importance of the product supplied.
The organization shall have decision criteria for determining “specially designated small suppliers” wherein certain specified elements of ISO 9001:2000 or ISO/TS 16949: 2002 may be waived. Records of the established criteria and decision taken accordingly shall be maintained. “Small” here above may refer to the volume supplied to the automotive industry or to the organization .
Refer to OEM Vehicle Manufacturer customer specifics for 2nd Party audit requirements for the organization who is a direct supplier to the OEM.

Sidney or Anyone who wants to respond,

So they have done away with the Guideline in FAQs and the associated four steps. Now all we have is the "first step" as stated in this Sanctioned Interpretation. It appears to me that I do not have any direction in complying with the requirement, "The organization shall perform supplier quality management system development with the goal of supplier conformity with this Technical Specification," if my suppliers are already 3rd party registered to ISO 9001. Am I reading this correctly?

(See also ISO 17021:2006), Section 9.

What kind of a sentence is this? So if we now have to perform 2nd party audits to comply with 7.4.1.2 we have to buy another standard in order to be compliant with TS?

Impressive!
Doug
 
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P

ppalm

#6
Re: SI 5 06 - ISO/TS 169494:2002 7.4.1.2 Supplier quality management system developme

Hi

I just saw the SI 5 06 ISO/TS news on the www.iaob.org hompage and went to this wonderful forum for help.
Is this item to be considered as an update of the 7.4.1.2 requierement (valid ASAP) or is this a sugestion for the next issue of iso/ts16949?

Patrik
 
V

vanputten

#7
Re: SI 5 06 - ISO/TS 169494:2002 7.4.1.2 Supplier quality management system developme

Hello Ppalm:

An "SI" is a Sanctioned Interpretation. It is sanctioned. The IOAB would not publish it if it weren't *official.*


You may start implementing SI 5 if you would like.

Regards,

Dirk
 
M

mgoward

#8
Re: SI 5 06 - ISO/TS 169494:2002 7.4.1.2 Supplier quality management system developme

Have I got the understanding of this correctly
:bonk:

We can now have a criteria for determining "special designated small suppliers" which will waive the requirement for them to be ISO 9000:2000 certified as a minimum.

If this is the case do we still need to obtain a customer approval / wavier to use these suppliers, and do we need to anually audit them.


:confused: :confused: :confused:
 

Douglas E. Purdy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
Re: SI 5 06 - ISO/TS 169494:2002 7.4.1.2 Supplier quality management system developme

Have I got the understanding of this correctly
:bonk:

We can now have a criteria for determining "special designated small suppliers" which will waive the requirement for them to be ISO 9000:2000 certified as a minimum.

If this is the case do we still need to obtain a customer approval / wavier to use these suppliers, and do we need to anually audit them.

:confused: :confused: :confused:
This is my take on the matter.

If the supplier is not 3rd party registered to ISO 9001, then you have to perform the 2nd party audits. The 'special designated small suppliers' who are not 3rd party registered will be 2nd party audited to the TS Standard but not to those criteria for which you have given them exclusions to. I presume that the exclusions can only be in Product realization.

The organization shall have decision criteria for determining “specially designated small suppliers” wherein certain specified elements of ISO 9001:2000 or ISO/TS 16949: 2002 may be waived. Records of the established criteria and decision taken accordingly shall be maintained. “Small” here above may refer to the volume supplied to the automotive industry or to the organization.

At least that is my take on the matter.

Doug
 
A

Andrews

#10
Re: SI 5 06 - ISO/TS 169494:2002 7.4.1.2 Supplier quality management system developme

It is clear from the SI that second party audits can be done on suppliers who have not got certified to ISO9001-2000. But there are some questions
a) Should the second party audits be done against ISO9001 or TS standard?
b) What happens to the non-conformities? Can we use same procedure as been followed for internal audits?
c) What is the time frame for closing these NC's?
d) Is prioritisation applicable for second party audits also?
e) For specialy designated small suppliers, what are the clauses or elements where waiver can be given?
f) Does this SI supercede or cancel the requirement of 7.4.1.2 where it says "unless otherwise specified by customer, suppliers of the organisation shall be third party registered to ISO9001-2000 by an accredited third party certification body".


Thanks,
Andy
 
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