Silly question..."elements of the standard" or "clauses of the standard"?

GStough

Staff member
Super Moderator
#1
I realize this may seem like a very elementary question, but I'd like to know what folks here think is the best, most accurate phrase to use when referring to the sections of the standard - are they just that (sections), elements, or clauses?

Or does it really matter?
Just curious...
:thanks:
 
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Craig H.

#2
I realize this may seem like a very elementary question, but I'd like to know what folks here think is the best, most accurate phrase to use when referring to the sections of the standard - are they just that (sections), elements, or clauses?

Or does it really matter?
Just curious...
:thanks:
FWIW, and this may be a silly answer...

A section, to me, would be an entire numbered section, i.e. Section 7, Product Realization.

A clause would be a subsection, such as 7.2.1 ("The organization shall determine...") "c) statutory and regulatory requirements..."

An element... how about aluminum? Seriously, "element" to me is vague, and could mean either of the above.
 

GStough

Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
FWIW, and this may be a silly answer...

A section, to me, would be an entire numbered section, i.e. Section 7, Product Realization.

A clause would be a subsection, such as 7.2.1 ("The organization shall determine...") "c) statutory and regulatory requirements..."

An element... how about aluminum? Seriously, "element" to me is vague, and could mean either of the above.
Thanks, Craig. This was actually what I understood as the meanings, as well. With some of the things I've read and heard lately regarding auditing to the elements of the standard (and this being associated with the previous version of 9001), I was curious to know whether my understanding was correct. I have a couple of auditors who still use "element" when there might be a better way to phrase it. :rolleyes:

Again, thank you! :thanx:
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#4
I have a couple of auditors who still use "element" when there might be a better way to phrase it. :rolleyes:
I resemble that remark... :eek: I'm known to never use the word "certified" but I do tend to use the term "element" to describe what's actually a clause. Then I would say "clause" to identify a subclause. Sigh.
 
C

Craig H.

#5
I resemble that remark... :eek: I'm known to never use the word "certified" but I do tend to use the term "element" to describe what's actually a clause. Then I would say "clause" to identify a subclause. Sigh.
I am unaware of anywhere that defines this terminology with any authority. My response described the way I happen to think when I hear those terms.

That said, there may be those who have said that they find the way I think a little strange...
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#6
I am unaware of anywhere that defines this terminology with any authority. My response described the way I happen to think when I hear those terms.

That said, there may be those who have said that they find the way I think a little strange...
I actually did a search and didn't find an authoritative definition set either. However, such a definition set may be in one of the standards that I don't have a copy of. I did find a number of casual references that matched yours.

In any case it's good to play the same tune as the rest of the band, so to speak...
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
I tend to agree with CraigH's statement. A section in my experience, is a Basic Requirement, and clauses are subs to the Section.
 
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Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
Didn't QS9000 call the sections "elements"?

FWIW - I also refer to them as sections - as in "Section 7" - and clauses - as in "Clause 7.2.1".

Added: I just pulled out my copy of QS9000 and it does indeed call them "elements".
 
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