Simplified Attribute MSA Gauge (Gage) R&R for Plug Gages

A

Atul Khandekar

#11
Unfortunately there don't seem to be any definitive guidelines about this. Here is my take:
1. Since specs are different, you should not club the gages as one family of 'plug gages'
2. For one gage used on 5 parts, I think you can perform r&r on any one part.
-Atul.
 
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Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#12
Garry,

I have some experience using plug gages but I'm not an expert, but here's my opinion FWIW: I believe the toughest test for the gage R&R would be for the 15mm +/- 0.1 mm part -- the largest hole size with the tightest tolerance. If the gage is suitable in this application I believe it would only be as good or better for the smaller holes with the same tolerance. I mainly use plug gages for go/no go testing which is easier than using them for quantitiative purposes.

Hope this helps some.

Mike S.
 
K

Kathealcantara

#14
Gauge R&R

Hi
can anyone tell me what is the percentage of fake rejects than an attribute Gauge R&R can have and still be accetable?
After doing one i got 16 fake rejects aout of 1000 products, is this ok?
 
T

Tulman

#15
Gauge R&R

I have a question regarding a customers demand. They would like for me to cut the tolerance on the part by the amount of error that I see from my Gauge R&R. This is the first that I have heard of this. My understanding of the gauge R&R is to determine if it is the appropiate gauge for the specification to be measured with the tolerances allowed. The customer is suggesting that we do this even if we have less than 10% error. Has anone else ran across this demand or can anyone give an explaination for the reasoning of this?
 

Caster

An Early Cover
Trusted Information Resource
#16
Yikes!

Tulman said:
I have a question regarding a customers demand. They would like for me to cut the tolerance on the part by the amount of error that I see from my Gauge R&R. This is the first that I have heard of this. My understanding of the gauge R&R is to determine if it is the appropiate gauge for the specification to be measured with the tolerances allowed. The customer is suggesting that we do this even if we have less than 10% error. Has anone else ran across this demand or can anyone give an explaination for the reasoning of this?
Tulman

I agree with your understanding. Never heard this one before.

Perhaps you could politely ask them to point out where the MSA manual contains this idea. Or any other authoritative text?

If so, I'd like to read, study and learn from it...you never know!

Sadly you may lose this battle, the customer always wins, even when they are wrong.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#17
Tulman said:
I have a question regarding a customers demand. They would like for me to cut the tolerance on the part by the amount of error that I see from my Gauge R&R. This is the first that I have heard of this. My understanding of the gauge R&R is to determine if it is the appropiate gauge for the specification to be measured with the tolerances allowed. The customer is suggesting that we do this even if we have less than 10% error. Has anone else ran across this demand or can anyone give an explaination for the reasoning of this?
This is a fairly common practice called guard-banding. In the normal situation, the producer has a risk of rejecting good product and the customer has a risk of accepting bad product. The extent of this risk is determined by the measurement variation. See MSA for gage performance curves.

Guard-banding places 100% of the risk on the manufacturer and 0% on the customer. Your reject rate may increase, but the customer is protected. I have seen this used frequently when the process capability is much tighter than the tolerances, so the cost of rejects is minimal.
 
C

copperman

#18
Re: Simplified Attribute MSA Gauge R&R for Plug Gages

Hi,

I have some questions about attribute MSA.
currently I use Minitab to calculate attribute MSA,
1. use hypothesis test ( p value < 0.05 ) it means the measurement system is accepted
2.also judged by Kappa value( if kappa >0.75, it shows good measurement system)
but if p value < 0.05 and kappa value < 0.75 , what comment should I make ? I can't find the answer in AIAG MSA 3rd.
3. any question is : if currently the result is only go/no-go ,for instances, in visual standard,there are many distinct categories, what method should I use ?
thanks for your reply !!

copperman.
 
C

chanti777

#19
Re: Simplified Attribute MSA Gauge R&R for Plug Gages

I can send by e-mail a Word 6.0 Document that explains R&R for attribute data. Can you read this type of file?

Regards,
Don

Don,

I am also facing same problem in dealing with attribute data. Can you pls send me the Word 6.0 Document that explains R&R for attribute data to my e-mail: (Edited by Miner. Please contact the poster through Cove PM). I can read this file.
 
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