Six Sigma - A debate of the validity of Six Sigma

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K

KMAAA

#22
Steve,

I won't go into a point-by-point analysis on some of your thoughts, but I think your over-generalizing.

While I'm not totally Deming fluent, his ideas, opinions, & practices, while undoubtedly very good, are not immutable by any means. If an action is contrary to a Deming principle then it's just that, contrary. Differing views is how growth occurs.

>The 6-S only focusing on costs & short term at that, and only training the fair-haired is quite contrary to the 6-S BB training I've received & experience since. Actually I was rather surprised when I read your posts above...doesn't sound like the 6-S that I know. My trainer was a GE engineer that was there from the beginning & now he & a partner have struck out on their own. Your take on 6-S seems more related to the shortfalls of a particular implementation than the philosophy & practice as a whole. Implementations are done by people & subject to their strengths as well as their weaknesses.

>Regarding your: "The capability of a process can be achieved and confirmed by use of a control chart, not by a distribution". So all the various calculations of ppm and cpk I believe Dr. Deming would have been against."

Makes me want to avoid Deming rather than embrace him. A control chart gives one view of the process & a distribution is just another view. With reasonable software either view is instantaneous and requires no effort. Cpk, Ppk, & ppm are just numerical summaries of the data. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see anything inherently evil here. There are forests & there are trees.


Ilias,

I read the lean service document yesterday. It was a little too sarcastic for my taste & looses validity because of this. It seems the author is trying to sell something(LEAN) & he's selling-down on 6-S. If you're selling an alternative it sort of removes you from unbiased author status.

___

I really don't want to be in a "defender of 6-S" position, but some of the comments I read here on 6-S don't seem overly "fair & even" or, in some cases, informed. I'm not personally married to 6-S any more than other approaches, but I do understand what it is on a first-person basis. 6-S is a valid & useful approach, as are others. It's just a matter of using the right tool at the right time for the job at hand. If the Goal is achieved, & people are generally pleased with the result, does the path matter that much?
 
T

Tom Slack

#23
KMAAA said:
Steve,
Makes me want to avoid Deming rather than embrace him. A control chart gives one view of the process & a distribution is just another view. With reasonable software either view is instantaneous and requires no effort. Cpk, Ppk, & ppm are just numerical summaries of the data. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see anything inherently evil here. There are forests & there are trees.
?
Your approach is evil. It comes from statistical fineprint. When a distribution is created, there is an assumption that the data is "independent". In other words, one datum is good as another when predicting a process. If the distribution (histogram) was created with trends or shifts, the inferences, process capabilities are harmful and decisions are incorrect. The histogram may look normal.

I'm not picking on this post, but I am concerned with results being produced without an awareness of statistical theory. I see it too often in this forum and others.

I know, I'm going to take my chill pill now..... :)

Tom
 
K

KMAAA

#24
evil...hmmm

You're right. Everyone works off their own palette & I glossed over some givens for my data. In my world data is independent & I take care of pre-processing prior to analysis & making conclusions. I guess the point was that once basic criteria are met both analyses are useful. Each highlights aspects that are not as easily seen in the other. If both analyses are basically "free" why not use them.
 
B

Bill Pflanz

#25
KMAAA said:
>The 6-S only focusing on costs & short term at that, and only training the fair-haired is quite contrary to the 6-S BB training I've received & experience since. Actually I was rather surprised when I read your posts above...doesn't sound like the 6-S that I know. My trainer was a GE engineer that was there from the beginning & now he & a partner have struck out on their own. Your take on 6-S seems more related to the shortfalls of a particular implementation than the philosophy & practice as a whole. Implementations are done by people & subject to their strengths as well as their weaknesses.
Mikel Harry is a PhD statistician and knowledgeble in many quality techniques and philosphies. As Jack Welch became more associated with championing Six Sigma, the statistics became less important and the emphasis on the bottom line results became more visible. I posted some of Jack's thoughts on what he understood Six Sigma was in an earlier posting.

I became concerned about GE's approach to Six Sigma mainly because GE and some other companies started to use it to promote their "fast trackers".
From Welch's book Jack:Straight from the Gut:

"We told the business CEOs to make their best people Six Sigma leaders. That meant taking our people off existing jobs and giving them two-year project assignments to qualify them for ... Black Belts."

When GE made this decision, they also changed their incentive compensation system to reward people by giving stock option grants to employees who were in Black Belt training. Again, quoting Welch: "We also used the stock option program for Black Belts to smoke out the weakest links.... Overall, Six Sigma is changing the fundamental culture of the company and the way we develop people - especially our 'high potentials'."

Welch did become more enlightened in the later years of Six Sigma but if you were a GE employee, wanted to advance your career and wanted some bonus money then you had to become a black belt. The statistically oriented and quality professionals went along for the ride and some even became consultants and made more money than staying at GE.

Bill Pflanz
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#26
This Six Sigma thing you do

It all sounds very nice and fine, but when I read posts on subjects like Six Sigma (6-S) I am always left with some questions.

1. Okay, it works for GE and it clearly has pleased ASQ. Many organizations have apparently used the system with satisfaction. However, it all seems very far away from here. The majority of businesses are small businesses. The larger share of manufacturing processes are not in control, ever, never mind reaching six or even four sigma. What is the world at large supposed to do with all this high flying talk?

2. I have heard of 6-S projects that clashed with one another, such as aspects of a business that were outsourced to each other, at the same time, unknown to the other. Oops. Baldrige and Kaizen are supposed to avoid this problem through calmer, more pragmatic approaches that look at the past as well as the expected future. Where are the stories about how the past 6-S projects are continuing to perform pleasurably over time, especially organization-wide?

3. My one near-here example of a person with 6-S black belt (he was certified in a local GE shop) received quite a tepid appraisal from his underling. Now it is true that opinions vary, but since he soon left his position I gather that hearts in this case were clearly not won either by management, the "Average Joe" worker or both. The BB was hired on like a star quarterback to perform his wonders, and in the end his reputation suffered. Isn't 6-S being used as just another initiative and selling point for buyer, seller and employee?

My take on this whole thing is that it is the basic quality tools repackaged. After TQM's black eye, Quality needed a makeover. It needed more focus in application, a more standardized approach and modern (quick profits) appeal. 6-S delivers that. And so be it, but my concern is that, to use an analogy, it is being used as invasive surgery when good diet, hygiene and healthy habits would help the organization perform at its natural best.

Jennifer
 
R

Rob Nix

#27
Jennifer Kirley said:
My take on this whole thing is that it is the basic quality tools repackaged. After TQM's black eye, Quality needed a makeover. It needed more focus in application, a more standardized approach and modern (quick profits) appeal. 6-S delivers that. And so be it, but my concern is that, to use an analogy, it is being used as invasive surgery when good diet, hygiene and healthy habits would help the organization perform at its natural best.
Very nicely put, Jennifer. :applause:
 
#28
KMAAA,
You seem to be knowledgeble and well versed in 6S. I have asked this question before and perhaps you could provide some information.
Is there any evidence,actual evidence from a real company, that shows a return on investment.i.e., increased revenue, fewer returns, increased customer base?
 
K

KMAAA

#29
Again, I don't want to be the defender of all things 6-S, but I have at least gone through the BB training (from two former GE Master BB who moved on to presumably greener pastures, consulting & training)


Bill,

I haven't read Jack's books, but I've have read & seen interviews with him. He has a very clear "perform or die" focus. As I understand it he laid out a metric of being #1 or #2 in a market or the entire division was gone. Great motivational tool until everyone gets burned out and says, "see ya, bub bye". I think your points are more a indictment of Jack Welch than 6-S. Had GE not had 6-S I think Jack would have behaved the same way...just used a different hammer. In my company (not a 6-S company & has no intention currently to be one) we recently introduced "Topgrading". Google "Topgrading" and you'll see similarities between what Jack twisted 6-S into & the goal of Topgrading.

Jennifer,
Good post.

re: 1) You're right, most businesses are small. I'm not so sure most of their processes are completely out of control, but I would wonder how many of them actually know where their processes are or understand, in a statistical sense, what their processes are about. While 6-S is a nice term, 6-S itself doesn't mandate +/- 6S in all processes...it does mandate that you understand what your capability is or will be & that it's in your best interest to get it as high as possible, within economic limitations. In fact GE had an average of around +/- 3S...from what my trainer said. What 6-S is about, mostly, is very tight project management & using quantitative & statistical means to move projects forward. 6-S also makes a very clear point of taking a systems approach to fixing a process or developing a new one. Regardless of the product/process/service that is developed(or fixed), process capability will be a concern when the product hits the market. That being the case...why wouldn't one want to consider process & measurement capability early in the project? If your best estimates, early on, indicate your process capability will be terrible or uncontrollable, or far too expensive then why would one want to spend the time & resources completeing the development program only to produce a product/process that you can't make money on? This isn't "high flying" as much as it is "prudent".

re: 2) There isn't program/practice made that prevents people from being dumb. There's no part of 6-S that says..."ignore what everyone else is doing & stay focused on your little world..." 6-S, or any approach, is only as good as the people practicing it. 6-S plus a good practioner wouldn't allow these examples to occur as they'd be looking at the big picture as well as the project focus. "Where are the stories about how the past 6-S projects are continuing to perform pleasurably over time, especially organization-wide?" Ahhh! a 6-S approach! "In God we trust, everyone else bring data!" I don't have any successful stories...I had the training...I understand & use many of the tools (none of which are 6-S orginals). Every program (LEAN, TOC, Kaizen, TQM....) has a slide in the introductory presentation..."this is how ACME Mfg saved $400MM dollars in the first two years...." Every program will have "great results" claims...even if they are stated...should you believe them? What is the basis of the claims? What was measured? Believe nothing you read & only half of what you see.

re 3) Yep. Like anything else someone can turn a buck on...lots of hype as the marketeers swarm. Again, I don't think this reflects so much on the actual, functional work someone would do in a 6-S effort as much this reflects on the people thenselves. It's no secret that management doesn't "get" alot of things...including CQE's & what they desire, or TQM. or LEAN or..... Take any star quarterback (of unknown skill) and send him/her against another team & you have a lost ball game. One person can't do it...it takes a team. CEO's that come into a company and promptly run it into the ground are not rare...does it follow that are CEOs are useless? No, there are good ones & ones that really should take up another line of work.


"My take on this whole thing is that it is the basic quality tools repackaged. After TQM's black eye, Quality needed a makeover."

Yep, absolutely. TQM did OK where I work, but if it takes a new coat of paint to get the tools & philosophy of doing things right in practice...I don't know that it's such a bad thing, whatever works. In the music industry people stopped buying plastic albums, the industry sales were flat...along comes a 79 cent to produced CD that sells for 18 bucks & everyone re-buys all the music they've ever owned. Is the music bad? Or is someone trying to turn a buck?

"It needed more focus in application, a more standardized approach and modern (quick profits) appeal. 6-S delivers that."

With all due respect, you don't understand 6-S. "quick profits" and "Six Sigma" is an oxymoron. A formal 6-S program is a pricey effort. The training suggests it's primarily used on "significant to the bottom line" projects. 6-S is more about doing it right the first time so you don't need to do it over..and looking far enough down known & expected roads (process capability, measurement stability & capability, understanding the true variables in your process, optimization of the output using those variables, testing process robustness to raw material variation...........) such that profits will indeed come or stop the work & move on.

"...when good diet, hygiene and healthy habits would help the organization perform at its natural best." This is closer to the 6-S that I was trained in. I can only speak from my experience. "Natural best" doesn't mean "entropy rules".

Sam,
re: "Is there any evidence,actual evidence from a real company, that shows a return on investment.i.e., increased revenue, fewer returns, increased customer base?"

See above. There are claims from all programs..the question is whether you can believe any of them. If anyone disagrees that better process capability & process control might be connected to fewer returns then I'd wonder what their doing in "Quality". I think if people would understand the nuts & bolts of what 6-S is, and not judge it at arms length from the hype that reaches them, they wouldn't wait to accept it based only on success stories. Simple logic & understanding the tools would answer their questions about it. It's tight project management where you try not to make assumptions & favor gathering data (i.e. knowledge, understanding) about the process.
________

It seems there are many people that willing to nuke 6-S without having at least had the training...I never would have guessed there was such an anti- movement. I'm not suggesting 6-S is the only option that is useful or that all companies drop what their doing and start a formal implementation ($$$$). There are lots of approaches available. I'm giving a rather large presentation to our Executive Committee on Monday...I'm suggesting to them, with supporting data, that we do need a better & improved Quality program. I'm not suggesting a full fledge 6-S adoption. Actually what I am presenting is a program I assembled from the ground up & inside out using good process understanding & the appropriate statistics. Pick or design a system that works and go for it. If it needs adjustment down the road...start adjusting. Tom Peters: "More at bats, more hits".
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#30
With all due respect, you don't understand 6-S. "quick profits" and "Six Sigma" is an oxymoron.
This is very possible. I will confess that my largest exposure to 6S is the unilateral hype fed to us all. I've never been in an organization that actually used 6S. In fact, I've been lucky to work in places that used written procedures. Most of them run on verbal instructions, even the Boeing supplier in a large metropolitan area. This was scary, but it was quite revealing in that it made me realize I can't blame my challenges on geography; that is, the small town aspect of doing business in Maine. At that point I was able to readjust my thinking about what approach was appropriate to my work.

Some people don't like it when I say their processes are not in control, but I stand by that. When I say "control" I mean the ability to take one's hands off the dials and things that tweak a process into submission to will; it's predictable, even given changes such as tool wear, temperature coefficients etc. Even the largest, state-of-the-art facility I have worked at did not have this capability.

Their personalities were the most limiting factors, however. None of these people, in any of the organizations outside of the submarine Navy had the ability to tightly control an improvement initiative, whatever it was called. Their measurement, analytical and introspective abilities were inferior to the need.

Now let's be clear that I support the 6S movement. If it gets the job done properly, but barks differently than TQM, I don't care what you call it. I understand that there are new, hot breeds of dogs these days: Poodles crossed with Labs, etc., are finding favor. Like these "new breeds," the Quality elements within 6S are still there; if they do well, I am happy.

I have just about given up ever finding placement in an organization where I can operate at my potential. I have taken a position as Education Technician in my local school district, where I teach special ed students for about $13K a year.

I struggle with this humble beginning, but I have a plan. It's pretty clear to me that the awareness level in general is so low that training should happen in the middle and postsecondary school levels. Both upcoming business owners and work forces are not getting the training needed to use Quality in their enterprises at large. I don't know for sure I'm doing the right thing, but I intend to do my part to raise the skill levels for the greater benefit.

Jennifer
 
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