Six Sigma - Statistical Tools - Valid or Hype? Value? Can a CQE do the same?

To me, Six Sigma is (multiple choice):

  • A sales gimmick. A CQE knows the same stuff.

    Votes: 12 24.0%
  • A CQE knows the same stuff. No big deal.

    Votes: 11 22.0%
  • A valid tool.

    Votes: 9 18.0%
  • A valid philosophy encompasing a set of specific tools.

    Votes: 11 22.0%
  • Really works but is more than most people understand.

    Votes: 14 28.0%

  • Total voters
    50

Steve Prevette

Deming Disciple
Staff member
Super Moderator
Yes, a very emotional topic.

I'm not complaining against six sigma - the first paragraph of my post does acknowledge that this thread wouldn't exist, and have so many responses if there wasn't a perceived competition between methods.

My second paragraph just acknowledges that I have made my choices, just as each of us have made choices. I am quite confident that a practicing Black Belt has made a decision to practice what they practice based upon strong personal beliefs. None of us would choose to practice what we choose to practice if we felt it was inferior. I'm just saying I'm comfortable with my choices, and no, don't perceive a need to bash alternatives to what I've chosen to practice.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
J

Jim Shelor

Steve,

That "choice" is exactly my issue.

Rather than making a "choice", wouldn't we get more done faster and better if we formed a partnership rather than making "choices"

Best regards,

Jim Shelor
PMP, CSSBB
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
Steve,

That "choice" is exactly my issue.

Rather than making a "choice", wouldn't we get more done faster and better if we formed a partnership rather than making "choices"

Best regards,

Jim Shelor
PMP, CSSBB
In truth, the controversy only exists only in discussions like this, and not on the front lines. Some companies have made a decision to adopt SS, and if you expect to get ahead in those companies, you'll put on the uniform. That has nothing to do with the intrinsic value of SS, or any other "strategy," however. Like I said earlier, if the folks at the top are serious about improvement and understand how to go about it, titles, caps and belts and certificates are just window dressing.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
I have been following this thread for a while. I thought about it, and decided to pull out my trusty Dr. W. Edwards Deming's "Out of the Crisis" again.
Sometimes you get so inundated with (emotionally driven) ideas and opinions, that you can't see the (quality) forest from the trees anymore. Do you agree that it all starts with:
1. Create constancy of purpose toward improvement of product and service, with the aim to become competitive and to stay in business, and to provide jobs.

I believe this is still true today as it was in 1982 when Dr. Deming wrote his masterpiece: "Out of the Crisis."

Stijloor.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
I have been following this thread for a while. I thought about it, and decided to pull out my trusty Dr. W. Edwards Deming's "Out of the Crisis" again.
Sometimes you get so inundated with (emotionally driven) ideas and opinions, that you can't see the (quality) forest from the trees anymore. Do you agree that it all starts with:
1. Create constancy of purpose toward improvement of product and service, with the aim to become competitive and to stay in business, and to provide jobs.

I believe this is still true today as it was in 1982 when Dr. Deming wrote his masterpiece: "Out of the Crisis."

Stijloor.
The phrase "create constancy of purpose" is the best definition of the responsibility of leadership ever written, and probably the most ignored.
 

Steve Prevette

Deming Disciple
Staff member
Super Moderator
There are always going to be choices, alternative methodologies. Dr. Wheeler says 8 point in a row below average is a trend on a control chart, Dr. Duncan says 7. We don't get too wrapped up in which is "right" and which is "wrong" but we understand that a choice must be made.
 
D

David Bear - 2010

My thoughts on the issue are that there are many CQEs who are jealous of SSBBs because many SSBBs are making 6 figure incomes (I am making this statement based on the many SSBB positions I have seen posted with a high starting salary). The reason I see for the pay inequality is that the SSBB has been getting better PR. The pay inequality also applied to any job in private industry. You are paid whatever you can convince the company to pay you.

Both CQEs and SSBBs are Quality professionals. They must be since ASQ certifies both titles. The main difference between the two seems to be that the SSBB focuses more on statistics and cost reductions.

I have my CQE and am studying the SSBB material. I have not taken any SSBB training because my company does not support the 6 sigma program and I do not wish to pay for the training if I am to receive nothing in return. It is my responsibility as a Quality professional to know this material whether or not I have the certification.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
There are always going to be choices, alternative methodologies. Dr. Wheeler says 8 point in a row below average is a trend on a control chart, Dr. Duncan says 7. We don't get too wrapped up in which is "right" and which is "wrong" but we understand that a choice must be made.
Both are "trends," but whether either is significant is another matter. It's all a matter of probability, and the fact that highly improbable things do happen.
 
J

Jim Shelor

I do not know how the question of choice got down to the choice between 7 and 8 when the original choice was one system or the other or a partnership, nevertheless, the choice between how many points is based on the risk of calling a process out of control when it is not.

If I have a process operating exactly on target, and all variation is common cause variation and normally distributed, the probability of a number of points being on one side of the mean is:

Pts Prob
4 0.0625
5 0.03125
6 0.015625
7 0.0078125
8 0.00390625
9 0.001953125


Simply a matter of risk.

Best regards,

Jim Shelor
PMP, CSSBB
 

Steve Prevette

Deming Disciple
Staff member
Super Moderator
I do not know how the question of choice got down to the choice between 7 and 8 when the original choice was one system or the other or a partnership, nevertheless, the choice between how many points is based on the risk of calling a process out of control when it is not.
I figured that the 7 versus 8 discussion would have less emotion. There are pluses and minuses to using either number, and anyone utilizing SPC needs to make the decision. It may be more related to how one first learned to do SPC that may be the basis for the decision (I learned Duncan prior to Wheeler).

Now, I suppose that is an artificial example since you can't use 7 and 8 simultaneously.

The original title of this thread includes the phrase "Can a CQE do the same". I suspect that things would be a lot less acrimonious today if ASQ had decided to add the Six Sigma body of knowledge to the CQE body of knowledge (certainly there are overlaps). Yes, the CQE exam covers many quality theories, including Juran and Deming, why could it have not included six sigma? But, we are where we are. And there are differences between Juran, Deming, Six Sigma, Lean, Reengineering, you name the guru or buzzword. But, the CQE and CQM exams could have been inclusive. Even now, ASQ is struggling with should there be a separate "Lean" certification!
 
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