Some Bickering and Chat

[energy]

Good enough

Ken,

Your choice is just that, yours. I have downloaded so many attachments from so many members that I lost count. While Marc's files are good, I wanted to see what other companies were doing. You know, other methods. To me, that option was the most important. I already communicate with a few members via regular e-mail, so messaging wasn't the prime reason. Number one for me, was to offer some support for the Cove, in some affordable way. Marc has said that members can attach without being in the exclusive club so I would expect that those that want to share without paying will still do so. I hope so. Those that attach and want some critical analysis can only get it from those who have offered support. Looking at the list, so far, there is some talent there to help out. Not me, I'm dumb. Hang in there. Marc will not cut off your cookies. If that were the case, I'd be speaking with a much higher voice. Peace.

 

[db]

A couple of thoughts here. At first is seems like a tough thing to suddenly be asked to pay for a "free" site. But think about what Marc said. This isn't a "free" site. It was and is a "mostly paid for my Marc" site. Some of us have paid to support this site, but that probably represents a small percentage of the site expense. All Marc is saying is that he is now taking a harder stance on what his financial contribution is and what ours is/ should be.

Personnaly, I think that $25 is a more than fair price. If Marc the communist wanted us to pay our fair share, then we ,would either have to pay "per post", or something like that. If Marc, the capitalist wanted us to pay our fair share, then he would figure out his costs, what his profit should be and what the market would bear and charge us accordingly, or something like that. I guess that puts Marc somewhere in between. And until he makes up his mind whether he is a communist pig, or a capitalist dog, then we will make do with how he's decided.

I say, ante up and get back to work!

 

[db]

This is great advertisment for your buisness it should be a write off!

That would depend if whether his business increases at a higher rate than the expense. If he spends $10,000 only to get $5000, then it might not be a "great advertisement". But we may never know, and personally, I'm not too concened. I only care that I have received over $25 worth of information from it.

 

[Jimmy Olson]

Marc,

If you are as fed up with this forum as you act, why not hand it off to someone else who is interested in running it? Then you wouldn't have to worry about reading things that you don't agree with and people could tell you to leave everytime you disagree with them.

 

[Marc]

Richard Olson said:

Marc,

If you are as fed up with this forum as you act, why not hand it off to someone else who is interested in running it? Then you wouldn't have to worry about reading things that you don't agree with and people could tell you to leave everytime you disagree with them.

Make me an offer.

My offer to you:
I give you the database for nothing - for free. You buy the software to run it and get it up and running on a server. Prior to giving you the database, you give me a legal paper where you promise to keep the forums online, at your total expense, for a minimum of 5 years.

Catch: You post a bond, from which you may have the interest from, but the principle of which will be mine if you default. Bond: US$50,000 (five years).

 

[Marc]

Re: Advertisment

skullsike said:

Well marc have you been writing the cove off as expenses!

This is great advertisment for your business it should be a write off!

Yes I write it off. It's still out of my pocket. No company is paying for this. I am.

And I'd like to hear from one - just one - person who works for free. All this bitching because I start charging for some 'luxuries'. So what if I DO make a profit off it this year? Give me a good reason why I should provide you with something for free. All the capitalists bitching because I start charging $25 a year for the 'luxuries'. Pretty shameful.

The person who says they DO work for free, just let me know. I have a lot of work here for you.

As far as it being a 'great' advertisement for my business, I get very few referrals from the site. I did in the 1990's when things were hot, but not any more. Not a big deal.

I started the Cove over 7 years ago. I didn't charge for anything. I got business from it, it was fun and I enjoyed it as a hobby to some degree. I mostly liked the interpretations chatter. I went out, got information and brought it back here. E-mail requests for help started coming in like mad - which led to the forums. I've written thousands of people with help over the years and actually called, at my expense, at least a hundred if not more. I enjoyed ISO. I enjoyed the learning.

The forums changed all that - but now it's forums and it gets real personal. The early forums are still available and we had some disputes, but there was no name calling or the other insulting behaviour as we are seeing here now. Take a looksie if you haven't. There was a lot of GOLD there for its time. And we had some really good people. Some of you might remember the legendary Don Winton. Some of you might remember an early unmoderated forum that digressed into a total shambles. Yet - it was an early starter and for quite a while was very popular.

To those who are: Quit complaining. Look folks - if you don't like it here for any reason, I have no idea why you stay around. If I don't like a site I don't visit it. Those I like, such as Salon.com I support and visit regularly. You don't like it here any more? Move on. Get a life. I've had a hard month and I'm a bit bitchy right now.

 

[Jimmy Olson]

Gee Marc. Are you this friendly in person as well? Do you treat your 'customers' the same way? Do you have any friends? Or have you chased them all away anytime they say something you don't like?

 

[db]

I think some folks just don't get it. You don't go into someone's house and complain about the furniture! Whether Marc got "free" information is irrelevant. Marc is not charging for the information. He is charging for the bandwidth! Look at as a cable company. They don’t charge for the programs (excluding pay-per-view), they charge for using their cable to get information. Bandwidth costs Marc money. The more bandwidth that is used, the more he pays. Why should he pay all the costs so we can use his bandwidth? All he is asking for us to do is to help cover the cost. If that is too much to ask, then get your “free” information elsewhere. Find the information on Google, or someplace.

Marc, you have every right to be "bit bitchy".

 

[Mike S.]

Re: Re: Advertisment

Marc said:

And I'd like to hear from one - just one - person who works for free. The person who says they DO work for free, just let me know. I have a lot of work here for you.

Marc,

Surely you must have forgotten. Surely you realize many Cove members do in fact do SOME work for free, and donate money, for various charities and organizations and people that they support. I think someone was asking for donations for their charity here on the Cove just recently, with your blessing if memory serves.

Just as not ALL work you do is for free, these folks don't do ALL of their work for free, either. Your "donation" of the free portions of the Cove are admirable as I have said many times. But I think it is a disservice and injustice to the others to suggest that no other Cove member engages in any philanthropy (or work for free) except yourself. JMO.

 

[Marc]

Re: Re: Re: Advertisment

skullsike said:

Woa Just asking, by the way was the information you got & brought back here free!

In the early days this site was like the wild west of the internet ISO world. Man - what did I bring back.... Have you ever taken a look at the main site? All I wrote? The links I put together? Pre-forums it was all e-mail communications and - heck, even the first forums - the software seems ancient now.

I used to post ISO news. I gave away the powerpoint slide files I now sell. I started selling them in 2000 or 2001 - a very bad year and - I'm glad I did start charging. I put a lot of hours into those presentations and I still have some of them online in the powerpoint export format. I gave away sample ISO and sample QS procedures. The 'old' pdf files directory had tons of free stuff in it. Have you ever been in that directory? Not much new, but yeah - I used to provide quite a bit of free stuff.

You joined here in 2001 - you missed the first 5 grand years.... So you probably don't understand how many thousands of my hours are in this site. Do a search on messages I've posted in these forums. I've helped one heck of a lot of people over the years.

Yes - I'm bitchy today and have been for the last month. I has been a long, hard month in many ways and I'll be bitchy for the next month, probably. Too much happening. I'm getting too old for all the stress and excitement.

BTW - I wasn't complaining at you above. I saw you were offering advice (if I wasn't I should be) and tried to frame my words somewhat to address that. Sorry if I missed.

I just really find all the crying hard to believe.