Some departments don't have Quality Objectives - Non Conformity?

[Sardokar]

Hello

I work in an IT company that delivers IT solutions,their implementations and support

during our internal audits we found that the support , implementations and almost all processes had quality objectives

except the Purchasing and HR departments which had none

Does this constitute a minor non conformity in regard to 5.4.1 or should we just classify it as a RFI ( recommendation for improvement)


i think i read somewhere that all processes don't HAVE to have objectives but im not sure of what to think

Please help

Thanks

 

[Ka Pilo]

Re: Some departments don't have quality objectives - Non Conformity ?

Hello

I work in an IT company that delivers IT solutions,their implementations and support

during our internal audits we found that the support , implementations and almost all processes had quality objectives

except the Purchasing and HR departments which had none

Does this constitute a minor non conformity in regard to 5.4.1 or should we just classify it as a RFI ( recommendation for improvement)


i think i read somewhere that all processes don't HAVE to have objectives but im not sure of what to think

Please help

Thanks

There should be quality objectives and it should be communicated throughout the department as total commitment to quality policy. You need to measure your department/function's ability to meet requirements and expectations. It will serve as basis for improvements, audits, management reviews etc

 

[Colin]

Re: Some departments don't have quality objectives - Non Conformity ?

As always in these situations, it is best to see what the standard says - which is '... they should be established at relevant functions and levels.'

I don't read that as saying every department has to have them. I think I would ask why they are different from the rest and possibly an OFI might be appropriate.

 

[Ka Pilo]

Re: Some departments don't have quality objectives - Non Conformity ?

As always in these situations, it is best to see what the standard says - which is '... they should be established at relevant functions and levels.'

I don't read that as saying every department has to have them. I think I would ask why they are different from the rest and possibly an OFI might be appropriate.

I think HR functions e.g. competence, etc and Purchasing are relevant functions
For example,
Conduct X # of trainings within Y month.
Availability of X manpower pool for identified positions per Y month.
X # of suppliers for Y
X% below existing market price per Y month.
Purchasing Efficiency X% per Y month

 

[Colin]

Re: Some departments don't have quality objectives - Non Conformity ?

I agree that they could have some objectives and you list some good options - the question is whether they have to have them. If the answer is No, they don't have to have them, then I would not/could not raise an NC.

 

[Ka Pilo]

Re: Some departments don't have quality objectives - Non Conformity ?

I agree that they could have some objectives and you list some good options - the question is whether they have to have them. If the answer is No, they don't have to have them, then I would not/could not raise an NC.

I got your point. I agree.

 

[howste]

Re: Some departments don't have quality objectives - Non Conformity ?

Hello

I work in an IT company that delivers IT solutions,their implementations and support

during our internal audits we found that the support , implementations and almost all processes had quality objectives

except the Purchasing and HR departments which had none

Does this constitute a minor non conformity in regard to 5.4.1 or should we just classify it as a RFI ( recommendation for improvement)


i think i read somewhere that all processes don't HAVE to have objectives but im not sure of what to think

Please help

Thanks

First, don't confuse a department with a process. Departments aren't mentioned anywhere in ISO 9001 for a reason.

The standard requires the organization to establish quality objectives at "relevant functions and levels." There may be objectives established for the overall organization that may apply to the purchasing and HR processes. I don't see evidence of a nonconformity against 5.4.1.

Instead of looking at objectives, I'd look at process measurements. Please read clause 8.2.3:

The organization shall apply suitable methods for monitoring and, where applicable, measurement of the quality management system processes. These methods shall demonstrate the ability of the processes to achieve planned results.

As you can see, each process is required to have some method to monitor/measure it to determine its ability to achieve "planned results." I suspect that this is really what you are talking about. If the organization has no method to do this, then it IS a nonconformity to 8.2.3.

 

[Colin]

Re: Some departments don't have quality objectives - Non Conformity ?

Howste, whilst I agree largely with what you say, I think there is an important point in that the clause does say '... monitor, and where applicable, measure ...' rather than shall measure. It could be that they are able to monitor the effectiveness of a process without actually measuring it - although I can't think exactly how off 'the top of my head'!

 

[AndyN]

Re: Some departments don't have quality objectives - Non Conformity ?

Another factor is that an organization can overwhelm itself with various parts having objectives and measurements etc. It really should be kept very simple - a bit like a car dashboard, as I've written before - there are multiple 'things' which could be measured and monitored on a vehicle - but basically, to get anywhere - the primary objective of using a car, there are really only 2-4 that need to be displayed on the dashboard - speed, gas, mile/kms etc.

For departments to 'come up' with some objectives e.g. 'conduct trainings' ensures that they will HAVE them, but not understand how this contributes to the overall objectives of the business towards the customer etc. I vividly remember one large corporation which had an objective of everyone having 40 hrs of training a year...whether they needed it or not!

 

[harry]

...................... Does this constitute a minor non conformity in regard to 5.4.1 or should we just classify it as a RFI ( recommendation for improvement) ..........................

Often, you can take the cue from your third party audit unless you have doubts about their competency.