Some noob ISO 14001 Questions

[jan s]

Hello everybody

Next week I am starting a course to (someday) become a registered auditor

I've been through the ISO and her Guidence-document, but still have some -noob- questions for which I hope to find an answer here. I want to be well prepared for this course, because they expect a surtain knowlegde level of ISO. I've been through some of the forum here (that already solved some of my questions - what a great forum this is btw!). We also received a preparation document that helped me on my way, but still...:

1. 4.3.1 states that 'the organization shall establish [...] a procedure to identify the env. aspects [...] within the defined scope of the EMS(env. management system).

But to define the scope of your EMS (is that the same scope as you env. policy?) you shoud know you env. aspects (and requirements).


I suspect that you can immediately start with PLAN (identifying you sign. env. aspect, identifying requirements), then define you scope (for example a specific production unit), then define env. policy (e.g. reduce air pollution) and then establish objectives (e.g. reduce air emission with dioxines) en targets (e.g. reduce emission dioxines with 10 % over 5 years), whereby the above mentioned scope becomes the scope of your EMS, or am I completely wrong here? Should you first set the scope for your EMS (how?) and then the scope for your env. policy based upon a review of the existing situation and then establish a procedure to identify your aspects en requirements?

2. Documents vs. records

Documents = everything that's on paper
Records = every document that include the proof of execution of an activity and it's result

If I got this right, 'Control of documents' says how you shoud manage everything that's on paper and 'control of records' specifies the manage of records. Logical I would say.

My preparation document states that records should be made for legal and other requirements, sign. env. aspects, product information, ... This doesn't seem to be things to put in records, but in other documentation (except for, e.g. legal requirements, if you put it onder 4.5.2 'evaluation of compliance?).

Does it matter? Is the procedure to manage documents different from the procedure to manage records? Where lies the difference in this undertone?

3. 4.4.2 'Competence, training and awareness' states that the organization shall retain 'associated records'. Are these records per person with the compentence level and trainings follewed or a general record covering the whole scope to show that a need for training was identified and that training was established and followed by the persons who needed to?

4. Does the procedure for operational control also have to include criteria to determine which processes need to have an operationel control? Or can the organization just document it's decision and than establish a procedure for the processes they choose?

5. 4.5.1 'Monotoring and measurement' states that the organization shall establish a procedure to monitor en measure, on a regular basis, the key characteristcs of its operations [...]. Does 'the key characteristics' only enclose the measurable activities as specified in the programmes?

6. What's the difference/undertone between 'audit pogramme' and 'audit procedure'?

Please excuse me for any/many language mistakes!
for your -no doubt- helpfull answers!

Jan S

 

[Peter West]

Re: Some noob questions

Hi Jan

I will take a shot at questions 3 and 6 for now.

3. - Within our company we just have a list of attendees to EMS (Environmental Management System) training, and our HR forms and records show other details as required (not everyone needs to be 'auditor' trained but those in an auditor should already be with a record to show this) but are managed within the HR department. I think for this case it is what works for your company and sufficient to prove that individuals are competent in carrying out their work in compliance with the company EMS. (Not sure this came across as clearly as it was in my head when I started writing it).

6. An Audit programme is the plan of audits to take place i.e. auditing waste management this month, then operational controls next month, and repeating each one every 6 months (for example). An audit procedure should contain details on the company's approach to auditing. In some circumstances you could liken an audit programme to a schedule and the procedure to guidelines or a description for carrying out the process.

I think there may be some definitions in a Standard somewhere. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[Peter West]

One other thing that I only learnt recently and actually it was Randy's post here - https://elsmar.com/elsmarqualityforum/threads/46749 that reminded me of it.

If you have a copy of the standard, look at the back for Annex A which is extremely useful in communicating the requirements of the standard (such as the competences, management of documents and records).

All thanks for that one should go to Randy. He's an Elsmar diamond.

 

[jan s]

Thank you Peter for your answers!

3. You can integrated the obligated information into your existing system. Check.

6. I thought it was something like this. Just wanted to make sure. Check.

I've already been through the Annex A, but a) sometimes the language makes it difficult to really get the point of something and b) the practical outcome of something is difficult if you don't have the experience.

Hope to get some more answers!

Jan S

 

[samsung]

2. Documents vs. records

Documents = everything that's on paper
Records = every document that include the proof of execution of an activity and it's result

If I got this right, 'Control of documents' says how you shoud manage everything that's on paper and 'control of records' specifies the manage of records. Logical I would say.

Jan S

A document doesn't necessarily have to be in a paper form. Look at the definition of document derived from ISO 9000:2005

3.7.2
document
information (3.7.1) and its supporting medium
EXAMPLE Record (3.7.6), specification (3.7.3), procedure document, drawing, report, standard.
NOTE 1 The medium can be paper, magnetic, electronic or optical computer disc, photograph or master sample, or a combination thereof.

and a Record

record
document (3.7.2) stating results achieved or providing evidence of activities performed
NOTE 1 Records can be used, for example, to document traceability (3.5.4) and to provide evidence of verification (3.8.4), preventive action (3.6.4) and corrective action (3.6.5).
NOTE 2 Generally records need not be under revision control.

 

[Dr. L. Ramakrishnan]

Hi

Here are a few points for you to consider:

1. Scope : Define the organization that is planning to establish and maintain an EMS. EMS is about managing the environmental aspects of this organization which it can control and that it can influence. When you define the scope, you may cover all or part of the activities, products and services of the organization whose environmental aspects can be controlled by the organization or can be influenced by the organization.

Before deciding to go for an EMS, it is expected that an initial review of environmental activities, legal requirements, stakeholder communications, accidents, incidents etc., is carried out by the organization; such a review will help to define the scope of the EMS fairly accurately. You can review the scope after each PDCA in the Management Review too.

In simple terms, you define the scope with the information available to you to start with; as you establish the system and review the system you will be able to fine tune the scope, if required.

2. Document/Records: Document need not be only on Paper; it can be on magnetic or any other media also which can be accessed (see definitions for documents and records in ISO-14001). Register of Aspects and Impacts and Register of Legal Requirements are RECORDS as they contain the results of an activity (or activities) carried out as per procedures that you have defined in your EMS

3. Associated Records: Associated documents mentioned in 4.4.2 not only refer to record of training, but also educational qualifications and records of experience. Competence (to carry out a particular activity) is evaluated based on the educational qualification, training and experience and such records help the evaluation. Record of training, including training need identification and subjects for training may help the evaluation.

4.Operational Control Procedures: ISO-14001 allows the organization to address "significant environmental aspects" through the following: (a) setting objectives, targets and programmes (b) training, (c) communication, (d) Operational Control Procedures and (e) Emergency and Accident procedures. Significant Aspects whose significance can be brought down by establishing procedures can be addressed through establishing operational control procedures (e.g. Procedure for handling chemicals in a warehouse, can address the issue of spillages and associated pollution by prescribing secondary containments, proper handling and storing instructions etc.); once the operational control procedure is established and is being practiced without fail, the significance of that particular aspect is understood to be brought down to a lower level.

5. Key Characteristics: This need not be confined to only the performance indicators related to the Environmental Management Programmes. There are many more key characteristics, which have not been covered under the EMP; they have not been shown as significant because they are under control. Unless those under control and those monitoring activities that you carry out are reviewed (or monitored) regularly there is a likelihood of slackness and the system may fail. Some insignificant aspects may become significant as the organization has not been monitoring them. In simple terms, key characteristics also refer to those aspects which are considered as insignificant at present; if they are not monitored regularly and controlled there is a probability that they become significant. (e.g. emissions, discharges, wastes, energy, efficiency levels etc.)

6.Audit Programme / Audit Procedure: Please see ISO-19011 for definitions.

All the best for your preparation.

With kind regards,

Ramakrishnan

 

[samsung]

Is the procedure to manage documents different from the procedure to manage records? Where lies the difference in this undertone?

The standard (14001) answers your question. Here it is:

4.4.4
Records are a special type of document and shall be controlled in accordance with the requirements given in 4.5.4.

4.5.4

The organization shall establish, implement and maintain a procedure(s) for the identification, storage, protection, retrieval, retention and disposal of records.

So, the requirements for record & documents controls are quite different.

 

[jan s]

Hi

Here are a few points for you to consider:

1. Review existing situation -> scope MMS, then establish PDCA with finetuning scope MMS if necessary (will prob. overlap). Check.

2. Document/Records: Document need not be only on Paper; it can be on magnetic or any other media also which can be accessed (see definitions for documents and records in ISO-14001).
-> knew that, but didn't mentioned it, sorry
Register of Aspects and Impacts and Register of Legal Requirements are RECORDS as they contain the results of an activity (or activities) carried out as per procedures that you have defined in your EMS
-> so the result of procedures like 'identification etc. of legal requirements' or 'external communication of sign. env. aspects' also require records?

3. Associated Records: Associated documents mentioned in 4.4.2 not only refer to record of training, but also educational qualifications and records of experience. Competence (to carry out a particular activity) is evaluated based on the educational qualification, training and experience and such records help the evaluation. Record of training, including training need identification and subjects for training may help the evaluation.
-> information must be available, but not necessaliry in 1 record (finding place is mentionned in procedure i guess); goal is to identify need for training + comfirm comptence for actions; organization chooses required level of comptence for each activity

4.Operational Control Procedures: ISO-14001 allows the organization to address "significant environmental aspects" through the following: (a) setting objectives, targets and programmes (b) training, (c) communication, (d) Operational Control Procedures and (e) Emergency and Accident procedures. Significant Aspects whose significance can be brought down by establishing procedures can be addressed through establishing operational control procedures (e.g. Procedure for handling chemicals in a warehouse, can address the issue of spillages and associated pollution by prescribing secondary containments, proper handling and storing instructions etc.); once the operational control procedure is established and is being practiced without fail, the significance of that particular aspect is understood to be brought down to a lower level.
-> So the procedure should identify those procedures/activities concerning sign. aspects that, with the help of operational control, could be lowered? Does an organization have to define the criteria (like for example with env. aspects tot sign. env. aspects) to determine when they need/want to establish operational control? For example: 'we will establish an operational control for every procedure concerning sign. env. aspects for which we had an exceeding of a the legal norm?

5. Aha, ok! Check.

6.Audit Programme / Audit Procedure: Please see ISO-19011 for definitions.
-> not familiar with this norm i'm afraid...

Thank you for the answers!

 

[Stijloor]

Hello everybody

Next week I am starting a course to (someday) become a registered auditor <snip>

Hallo Naamgenoot!

Veel succes met de kursus volgende week!

Lots of success with the course next week!

Jan (AKA "Stijloor"), Forum Moderator.

 

[jan s]

Bedankt! Thank you!