Sorting Supplier Requirements - IATF 16949 Cl. 8.4.2.3

[Hendor]

Hi.
To supplier of sorting, it must be required that this certificate with ISO 9001?

 

[Marc]

Is this in reference to IATF 16949 requirements?

 

[Hendor]

Yes by IATF, we currently have suppliers sorting , and do not have ISO 9001 certificates, then we should develop their quality system?

thank you

 

[Golfman25]

Yes I believe sorting vendors would be subject to supplier development. Check the standard language. It may even mention them as being included - I can't recall right now.

 

[Marc]

The key here is the definition of "supplier development". There is a wide range of things which can be considered supplier development, some quite limited and some quite extensive. For a sorting company I would think it would be a small "project", so to speak, and I'm not sure it would be required. Usually sorting is relatively rare so an expensive, exhaustive supplier development program/effort wouldn't be of value unless you used them extensively, frequently, and if it is related to a safety item (such as airbags) critical to safety.

 

[Golfman25]

The key here is the definition of "supplier development". There is a wide range of things which can be considered supplier development, some quite limited and some quite extensive. For a sorting company I would think it would be a small "project", so to speak, and I'm not sure it would be required. Usually sorting is relatively rare so an expensive, exhaustive supplier development program/effort wouldn't be of value unless you used them extensively, frequently, and if it is related to a safety item (such as airbags) critical to safety.

IATF is pretty clear about the development of suppliers from no QMS to full IATF certification.

 

[Marc]

IATF is pretty clear about the development of suppliers from no QMS to full IATF certification.

Please cite the requirement(s) from the standard or sanctioned interpretations.

It is certainly NOT the requirement that all suppliers must be "developed". Consider how much that would cost. It isn't realistic.

I first got into which suppliers have to be "developed" back in the 1990's and I don't think anything has significantly changed. In addition, I have gotten a number of companies tier 2 and below to successfully only be required ISO9001 rather than full blown TS 16949, and QS 9000 before that.

I have also been involved with sort projects where the company doing the sorting wasn't even ISO 9001 (admittedly some years ago).

Also see:

Supplier Development Requirements - TS 16949

Supplier Development - TS 16949 Flow Down Requirements - Tier 2 Supplier

You may find some more specific supplier development requirements in customer specific requirements such as http://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/IATF-16949-GM-CSR_Dec.-2016-1.pdf

 

[Golfman25]

So start with 8.4.1.1 which requires the definition of externally provided products, processes, and services to include sorting, among others.

8.4.2.3 requires those suppliers to develop, implement and improve a QMS certified to ISO, unless otherwise authorized by the customer, with the ultimate objective of becoming IATF certified. It then lists several steps, such as min. Automotive supplier criteria, compliance wit IATF, etc.

So in response to Hender's question, their sorting suppliers should be ISO or at least working toward it and eventually toward IATF.

 

[Marc]

I'll go along with that, but the real question is how far a company has to go in actually involving themselves in/with a supplier to help "develop" them. Mostly what I saw was a requirement without actual involvement. On the other hand, I have seen, and been involved in, actually visiting a (typically a critical supplier who has been experiencing problems) supplier's facility and working directly with them on their systems and processes. I bring this up, as in my post above, because I saw a lot of

...unless otherwise authorized by the customer...

where the customer agreed that, for example, TS 16949 (and formerly QS-9000) was overkill for many suppliers (not to mention simply too expensive).

When I wrote the above I was thinking of several companies which called me in to help because they were being required by a customer to register to TS 16949 or QS-9000 where the first thing we did was contact the customer and ended up with something like "Well, if you can be working towards ISO 9001 registration we'll be happy." And in none of the cases did the customer in any way help the supplier - It was simply their boilerplate requirement. So, in those cases "supplier development" meant no more than to simply place a requirement on the supplier.

The "supplier development" requirement isn't new to IATF 16949 by any means.