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Source Control Drawing vs. Part Approval Process

D

Daryl

#1
Hi folks - it's been a while - good to see the Cove going strong!

I have a question regarding the use of a source control drawing (as prepared by engineering to define specific manufacturer parts #s) vs the part approval process (to approve the use of a new part on an assembly, get it checked into our ERP system, etc)

We are a small engineering firm moving quickly towards manufaturing and we are trying to figure out the best way to handle approving acceptable alternate parts:
- we have a design that works, with specific manufacturer part numbers defined on approved, released and customer approved drawings - all good.
- we now want to approve acceptable alternates to parts - particulary electronic component parts (surface mount resistors, capacitors, etc) - often times the designer does not care what manufacturer the part comes, just that it is the right size, value, etc.

We could do this by preparing source control drawings for each part to identify the various manufacturers that purchasing can buy the part from, but this will take up a lot of engineering time, plus possibly a customer approval loop.....we could set up a part approval process (maybe a PPAP light? but an internal process) to approve when new parts are used on an assembly, but then these new parts would not flow up to the drawing?

I know a lot of big companies that do both, but I am hoping there is some middle ground here that I can make work for our situation - (we are like the little company doing big company stuff).

Any feedback is appreciated!
Daryl
 
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CarolX

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Source Control drawing vs Part Approval process

Hi Daryl - sorry your post got lost without any replies -

Can anyone provide some input?
 
A

andygr

#3
Re: Source Control drawing vs Part Approval process

Addressing the case when you have an electronic component that you do not nessarly care who makes it but the case size or lead location vary by manafacture.
If possable the best thing is to have engineering call out standard industry designation for a component that all manafactures would meet and suply to. Engineering types who want to use standard parts but only if they are in compliance with specific parts of the tolerance range drive manfafacturing and buyer types crazy. When this is not possable to purchase to catalog in order to have a desing work then you are restricted to clearly defining your design useing a spec or print to define those elements that are required to be controled for your unique appliaction with a final referance to the commen component spec ( Mil-R XXX or Mil PFR-XXX ect). Your PO would be to your drawing/or spec and the supplier will charge you more for not using a standard resistor call out even though they meet it.

I recomend that you approve manafacturing sources in general and in those cases that you cannot use Cataloge parts that you create a performance/envelope spec that you order parts to.
:2cents:
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: Source Control drawing vs Part Approval process

Hi folks - it's been a while - good to see the Cove going strong!

I have a question regarding the use of a source control drawing (as prepared by engineering to define specific manufacturer parts #s) vs the part approval process (to approve the use of a new part on an assembly, get it checked into our ERP system, etc)

We are a small engineering firm moving quickly towards manufaturing and we are trying to figure out the best way to handle approving acceptable alternate parts:
- we have a design that works, with specific manufacturer part numbers defined on approved, released and customer approved drawings - all good.
- we now want to approve acceptable alternates to parts - particulary electronic component parts (surface mount resistors, capacitors, etc) - often times the designer does not care what manufacturer the part comes, just that it is the right size, value, etc.

We could do this by preparing source control drawings for each part to identify the various manufacturers that purchasing can buy the part from, but this will take up a lot of engineering time, plus possibly a customer approval loop.....we could set up a part approval process (maybe a PPAP light? but an internal process) to approve when new parts are used on an assembly, but then these new parts would not flow up to the drawing?

I know a lot of big companies that do both, but I am hoping there is some middle ground here that I can make work for our situation - (we are like the little company doing big company stuff).

Any feedback is appreciated!
Daryl
You should specify specific manufacturers and/or purchasing sources on drawings only on rare occasions when it's really critical that only a given variety of component is known to work in the application. For most basic electronic components--resistors, capacitors, diodes, etc.--if the type, nominal value and tolerance is specified, it's not going to make much difference where they come from, and supplier sourcing is a matter of price and delivery.
 
D

Daryl

#5
Re: Source Control drawing vs Part Approval process

Hi Jim,

Agreed - but my question then is for those times when we do not care where the part comes from, what do we put on the drawing? Do we put a generic in-house part number (i.e. from our ERP software) and have controls in place to define what that is? Or do we leave the maufacturer part number on the drawings and have a system to define acceptabel alternates?

An example:
- our current drawing has:
Desc: CAP, 6.8 nF, Ceramic, 10%, C0G, SM0805
Manufacturer: Cal-CHip
Manufacturer Part #: GMC21CG682G16NT
In this scenario we have to get approval to use any other part.

- if we do not care if the part comes from Cal-Chip, we could do this:
Desc: CAP, 6.8 nF, Ceramic, 10%, C0G, SM0805
Manufacturer: ANY
Part #: 123456 (a generic number created by us)

But this leads to the question what is Part # 123456? (especially if we subcontract assembly). We do not want to create drawings for each part like this, but if we do not then all anyone without our ERP system has to go by is the description. I thought of referring to a "suggested Manufacturer and Part #", to at least give a specific number.

Other places must be dealing with this somehow - any thoughts or experiences are welcome.
Thanks for your time!
 
#6
Re: Source Control drawing vs Part Approval process

For "catalog" parts we do not create a drawing. Rather, we have a part approval form that requires engineering approval before it is entered into our ERP system. For example, Engineering creates Icy Company Part Number 123456. A Part Approval Form is filled out with the number 123456 and a description, "Resistor SMT 10K 5% 1/8W 1206". Approved sources are:
DALE CRCW1206103JRT1
KOA RM73B2BT103J
Engineering signs off and the whole thing is loaded into ERP with all the approved suppliers, costing, etc.
Later, Purchasing wants to buy from Stackpole, so a Part Approval Form is printed, SEI RMC1/8 10K 5% is added, Engineering signs off, and the SEI number is added to ERP under the 123456 number.

There you go, you've covered engineering specification and approval of the part, if you have change notice requirements with your customer you can use the form for their approval, you can print acceptable manufacturer numbers on your PO to your distributor which covers purchasing information, and you can inspect 123456 against approved numbers at incoming. We can print a circuit board bill of material with both our number and the mfg. number so sending this assembly to a contract manufacturer requires only assembly drawing and BOM to specify the entire thing.
 
A

andygr

#7
Re: Source Control drawing vs Part Approval process

Previous location I was at used to create a part# and below the description (CAP, 6.8 nF, Ceramic, 10%, dielectric, type )
(Cal chip CAP, 6.8 nF, Ceramic, 10%, C0G, SM0805) they could add a table of the various manafactures specific components that were interchangable listing Manafacture, Location, PN.
The key was the title of the table- Qualified ment that the source had to be qualified and approved ( prevented purchasing from the grey market), Recomended- ment that these were known manafactures/distributors that have suppied these components in the past but any equilivant components to what was in the description were acceptable.

:2cents:
 
D

Daryl

#8
Re: Source Control drawing vs Part Approval process

Icy Mountain - good to hear from someone actually doing this - thanks.
One question though - on your Part Approval Form, do you consider other assemblies using the same part? I was thinking of requiring the approval anytime a new part is used on a new assmbly. Or the Part Approval form could note assemblies where the part is used and it is up to Engineering to ensure the part is OK for use in all applications.
 
#9
It is possible to run a "where used" report for a part number. We use an Engineering Change Order (ECO) to add or change sourcing for most active parts like transistors, diodes, etc., just to make sure that the change is thoroughly researched and approved. The part approval form approval would be a sub-set of the ECO. Only in the case of a very simple change (e.g. the resistor example I used before) would we use the approval form only.

What is important here is that WE are not generating specification drawings. We are using the manufacturer's published specification for the exact part number that we list under OUR part number. Any parts added must meet or exceed the specification of the original. BTW, I keep a database of the original PDF file for each manufacturer's part number, cross-referenced to our part number.
 
S

sardonyx

#10
I agree with Icy Mountain, we use the same process as Icy in my previous company, manufacturing of power supply. In addition to that, if you are creating or adding a new component into your system please let the engineers provide you with at least 2 alternate manufacturers just in case long leadtime component occurs you are ready with the alternate source.
The best way to add alternate is to check where it is being used if it may affect other assemblies. Other assemblies have a too tight tolerance to fit the new alternate part so be cautious about that. And some resistors eventhough they have the same specs some they differ in length and width, we had encountered this kind of problem before. We approved the alternate source without knowing that this change was a big impact on other assembly. Just a thought.:rolleyes:
 
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