Special Characteristics on DFMEAs - KPC's on the Design FMEA?

A

Al Dyer

#11
TOMO:

Are you a design responsible supplier to the Big 3? If so, how was the determination made and what type of documentation is issued by your big 3 customer to designate you as design responsible?

Just curious!

ASD...
 
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K

Kerry

#12
Al -

Could you please clarify your reasoning for the question to TOMO listed below?

Originally posted by Al Dyer:
TOMO:

Are you a design responsible supplier to the Big 3? If so, how was the determination made and what type of documentation is issued by your big 3 customer to designate you as design responsible?

Just curious!

ASD...
 
A

Al Dyer

#13
Originally posted by Kerry:
Al -

Could you please clarify your reasoning for the question to TOMO listed below?


I am refering to QS-9000 3rd edition element 4.4, where it notes that a supplier is design responsible if they have the authority to establish new or change existing product specification. Just looking for any info as to how the big 3 determine this and how they document it to the supplier.
 
K

Kerry

#14
I'm kind of getting off the topic of this forum, but are suppliers required to have something in writing from the Big 3 stating whether or not they are design-responsible? Would this be something that would be included in a contract, or would it be a separate document?
 
T
#15
Al,

I am curious as to the relevance of your question to the topic.

The OEM communicates performance requirements for the systems we provide via an RFQ/technical specification. We provide a design proposal to meet the requirements. Being a working level engineer, I am not aware of any official documented declaration of design resposibility. But I do know that we are legally responsible for any design weaknesses, etc.

I am not sure if this answers your question. But, then, I am not sure what relevance your question has to the topic, either.

TOMO
 
A

Al Dyer

#16
The relevence is to provoke some discussion between companies mis-understanding the difference between being a "design responsible" supplier to the big 3 and using a DFMEA as an internal tool.

Is there a requirement in QS-9000 that companies shall use DFMEA? No

The AIAG FMEA manual is not an auditable document, only a reference manual.

On page 67 of QS-9000 3rd Edition, Ford outlines that when a supplier is "design responsible" they shall prepare a DFMEA.

Page 4 of the AIAG PPAP manual(auditable) states that if a supplier is "design responsible" they shall prepare a DFMEA.

The same in TS-16949, only different wording.

Personal opinion, if you are not "design responsible", a FMEA is a FMEA.

This topic is very interesting but realize that the intent of an interesting topic can waver over its course. If you feel I should generate it under another topic I have no problem moving it!

Keep up the posts!

ASD...
 
T
#17
I see!

Where I'm coming from is driven by customer requests for quote. Inevitably, there is an entry in the text of the RFQ mandating that we conduct Design FMEA's and invite/share results with the customer.

Whether QS generically requires a DFMEA or not is kind of a moot point as the customer mandate in an RFQ/SOR/SOW, etc. for a DFMEA specifically makes it required. This is even further put to bed by our specific procedures which make FMEA's a requirement (as Martha would say, "It's a good thing").

My concerns are related to ramifications of referencing "Special characteristics" in the Design FMEA. There are often commercial/confidentiality, specificity issues involved.

I am in definite agreement that if the customer has specific characteristics that he/she wants referenced on the salable item under contract, they could indeed, be included in the Design FMEA.

I am not convinced that anything is accomplished by including all special characteristics of every sub-asm and component. I am, however, convinced that it could have detrimental effects.

TOMO
 
K

Kerry

#18
Originally posted by Al Dyer:
Is there a requirement in QS-9000 that companies shall use DFMEA? No


ASD...
Al -

Under 4.4.5.1, Design Output - Supplemental the QS standard states "The supplier's design output shall be the result of a process that includes:" among other things "Use of Design FMEAs"

But again, I digress. I do appreciate everyone's input.
 
A

Al Dyer

#19
Kerry:

I agree, if the company is design responsible. That is why I like to ask how companies document that they are design responsible as stated in the 1st paragraph of element 4.4.

Are there any truly "Design Responsible" suppliers that can shed some light?

ASD...
 
#20
Al, This is the second (maybe more) time that you have asked this question concerning design responsibility. Where are you going with this? What is your interpretation of the note? Please elaborate.
 
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