Special Characteristics - What if the customer does not identify any SCs?

L

Lardner

#1
The standard says that the customer should id them, if they have not you shoud via the Fmea failure modes with severity 9 and 10. Question, if the customer does not have any and if you ask they can not provide and you do not have any severities above 8, is it ok not to have any special characteristics stated in the D-FMEA?
 
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Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#2
I *assume* you are a manufacturer making a part for a company according to their specifications.

What specific standard and clause are you referring to?

A customer supplies a print. On that print any 'Special', 'Critical' or other characteristics should be defined.

I have rarely seen it, but sometimes the customer provides a Design FMEA. There is a recent discussion here about flow down from a Design FMEA to a Process FMEA. I don't see it off hand. Maybe one of the others here remembers which thread it is.

Here is a very old thread: How to identify Special Process Characteristics in FMEA

My experience is if a customer doesn't supply a Design FMEA and has not communicated any Special Characteristics (either by way of a print or otherwise such as within the contract its self), there isn't any impact on your Process FMEA.

Also see: Special Characteristics
 
L

Lardner

#3
We are a supplier of electronics systems where we do the D-FMEA on system level (our product defined as a system). Some times we do a System FMEA with the customer as well.

When starting the develpment of this product we start out with a specification but since we are a development partner to our customers the specification is never complete when we start, we always work together on finalizing it.

Here we need the special or critical characteristics as input to our D-FEMA work. If the product has saftety features it's simple they become Special characteristics but if you do not have safety of regulatory requirements on the product and the customer has not pointed out any SC's and on top of that no high severities comes out of the D-FMEA work.

What it really comes down to would an external auditor approve of an D-FEMA without andy special characteristics if above can be proven?

I'll check about SC's but does not req's comes from the TS16949?!

Thanks Mikael
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
We are a supplier of electronics systems where we do the D-FMEA on system level (our product defined as a system). Some times we do a System FMEA with the customer as well.

When starting the develpment of this product we start out with a specification but since we are a development partner to our customers the specification is never complete when we start, we always work together on finalizing it.

Here we need the special or critical characteristics as input to our D-FEMA work. If the product has saftety features it's simple they become Special characteristics but if you do not have safety of regulatory requirements on the product and the customer has not pointed out any SC's and on top of that no high severities comes out of the D-FMEA work.

What it really comes down to would an external auditor approve of an D-FEMA without andy special characteristics if above can be proven?

I'll check about SC's but does not req's comes from the TS16949?!

Thanks Mikael
You have to look to general customer requirements. I know that in the past, dealing with GM, it was expected that (for PPAP purposes) if they didn't specify any SCs, the supplier was expected to identify at least one from their process to satisfy the Level 3 PPAP requirement for a capability report.
 
N

Neil V.

#5
We've operated for years under the premise that if a special characteristic was not noted by the customer then there was no requirement to identify one.

However, at our last surveilance audit we were given a non-conformance for not having identified at least one special characteristic for each part. (TS audit, Chrysler)

We addressed it by making each operation setup 'special'.

In my opinion, this has led to more issues, including flow down of the identification of these new special characteristics to all operator instructions (which we're not doing) and has added no value.
 
R

rnrphantom

#6
G'day everyone, This is my first post in here.
My interpretation is that if there are no customer specified SC's or CC's then there is no requirement for you to conduct capability studies.
Yes the TS auditors may request it, but it is not mandatory, and I have successgfully argued this point!
To appease our auditors, we have internal requirements that if severity is greater than 6 and occurrence greater than 4, then it is automatically a an internal "High Impact" characteristic that we take action on to reduce the RPN. Hope this helps.

Cheers

Rob
 
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