Special IATF audit of sub-supplier

#1
I work for a tier 1 automotive supplier. If our customer scorecard is RED for Ford, the IAOB notifies our CB and requires a special audit. How can we request a special audit for one of our sub-suppliers? Is there a process for this? Thank you.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#2
Assuming you have exhausted your direct communication with the supplier to resolve the quality issues and also assuming the supplier has some form of QMS certification (ISO 9001, IATF16949, etc) you can communicate with their CB and explain your concerns about their system performance. If the CB is serious, they should take action, which could include a special, short notice audit*. Naturally, your supplier will not appreciate being exposed to their CB, so there could be consequences, so be aware. Have a look at the interesting presentations available @ IATF 16949 News - Presentations from the latest IATF Stakeholder Event - Expectation that IATF 16949 certification should equate with product quality. Misguided?

* an excerpt from ISO 17021-1:2015, applicable to duly accredited CB's:
Screenshot 2021-07-14 084728.jpg
 
#3
Thank you for your reply. One follow-up question ... if we were to contact the CB, and a special audit was scheduled, do you know if our OEM would be notified? That may be okay, but we would probably want to notify them in advance. Thank you.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#5
Sidney gives good advice, and I would follow that direction first...(likely only).

That said, I've been the non-IATF sub-supplier in your scenario...and was blamed for our customers red card. We were audited not by a CB, but by our customer's Head of Quality and an auditor from the Tier 1 (same visit, joint audit). That's the approach they chose to take.

I would go the CB route as Sidney describes...their approach worked very badly when we had no findings and it made the customer (you in this case) look rather bad to the Tier 1.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#6
their approach worked very badly when we had no findings and it made the customer (you in this case) look rather bad to the Tier 1.
I cannot overemphasize the importance of only going a route that involves other parties, AFTER you have exhausted the traditional feedback loops with the supplier. In principle, NOBODY is better positioned to resolve (or attempt to) the problems than the customer & supplier directly involved. Further, no serious CB would take action, or engage in a discussion with a registrant's customer, without evidence that the certified system performance is seriously unworthy of being certified.

From the outside, it still seems that, in the American automotive supply chain, there is a lot of adversarial business relationships, while the typical Japanese automotive OEMs tend to have a much more collaborative approach with their supply chain partners.
 

malasuerte

Involved In Discussions
#7
I work for a tier 1 automotive supplier. If our customer scorecard is RED for Ford, the IAOB notifies our CB and requires a special audit. How can we request a special audit for one of our sub-suppliers? Is there a process for this? Thank you.

Sorry, I am confused, why would you request a 'special audit' from the CB? Do you not audit your suppliers, or more specifically, this one in particular?

You are the customer. It would seem to me, that you would want to audit the supplier yourselves. The CB is not going to be able to make better assessment than you.

When we have supplier quality issues, including fails that disrupt the supply chain; we conduct a supplier audit.
 

malasuerte

Involved In Discussions
#9
Don't you start with a Supplier Corrective Action Request? Prior to a supplier audit, which can be time, effort, and budgetary consuming...
Not necessarily. We can skip straight to an audit of a supplier; as can the auto customers. As a matter of fact, just about to start support an audit requested directly from the OEM.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#10
We can skip straight to an audit of a supplier; as can the auto customers.
Seems odd to me that a supplier audit would be the first line of action. A SCAR allows the supplier to propose their own solution to the problem leading to the escapes. A supplier audit to fix quality problems seems to be a micro-management and punitive approach and indicates a lack of trust on the supplier to resolve the issues.

It is always good to remember that any organization that has a significant number of poor performing suppliers should really analyze their own supplier screening/approval/acquisition process.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
earl62 What is the best way to control special characteristics in Control plan? Is it Mandatory to have SPC for IATF 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 12
P Sanctioned Interpretations - IATF 16949 Cl. 8.3.3.3 Special characteristics IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
E IATF 16949 Cl. 8.2.3.1.2 - Customer-designated special characteristics IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
T Customer special status and initial IATF certification IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 12
S IATF 16949 Clause 8.3.3.3 - Documentation of all Special Characteristics in Drawings IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
M Special Characteristic - IATF Definition IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
Watchcat REGULATORY WATCHCAT - De Novo Proposed Rule - Special Controls and Standards Other US Medical Device Regulations 0
A Special Characteristic question from Automotive CSR Customer and Company Specific Requirements 9
N Validation of special processes - thread closed Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 3
John C. Abnet Special Status Notification IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
A IRIS audit - Discussion about Special Processes General Auditing Discussions 11
S SOP Identification of Special Characteristics IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
B AS9102 - 3D printing a special tool required for assembly (counterfeit risk?) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 12
Nihls MSA Study Type 2 (special conditions ) IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 0
Techilady Ford Special Characteristics Communication and Agreement Form (SCCAF) provides production requirements? FMEA and Control Plans 4
R Critical Characteristics & Special Characteristics FMEA and Control Plans 2
P Letter to file or special 510k or traditional 510k 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 2
S OEM full range calibrations vs Validation special test points Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 1
G Special 510K possible? Only the packaging has changed Other US Medical Device Regulations 0
S Special 510(k) for orthopedic implant 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 4
N Riveting - special process Manufacturing and Related Processes 11
H AS9100D clause 8.5.1 f) & 8.5.1 g) - Special Processes AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
C AIAG-VDA PFMEA - 1st special Characteristics? [5step vs. 6step] FMEA and Control Plans 3
J 1.11 Preliminary Identification of Special Product and Process Characteristics APQP and PPAP 4
Y What are different Special Inspection Level 1-4 and General spesification 1-3 ? AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 0
L Special Processes for SERVICES AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 10
K PSA Special characteristics Customer and Company Specific Requirements 0
Watchcat Advantages to pursuing a Special 510(k) instead of a Traditional 510(k) Other US Medical Device Regulations 5
qualprod Managing a "special" customer into the QMS? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
S Special 510(K) - Labeling change from Rx to OTC Other US Medical Device Regulations 11
M Special Controls and Class II Medical Devices Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 18
A ISO 10993-7:2008/ Amd.1:2019 - Classification of special populations Other Medical Device Related Standards 8
H SPC for special characteristics - CSR - Control of SC and CC Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 1
L Special Processes - Technical reason concerning torque - Anaerobic compounds Manufacturing and Related Processes 10
M Informational US FDA Final Guidance – Special Premarket Notification [510(k)] Pathway Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
F Replacement Bone Screws - Traditional 510(k) or Special 510(k)? Other US Medical Device Regulations 7
F Assignment of Special Characteristics to government regulations IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
qualprod ISO 9001:2015 8.5.1 f - Scope with customer special process requirements ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
J ISO 13485 - 7.5.2 cleanliness , 6.4.2 validation of special processes, and 6.4.2 contamination ability to be exempt? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
L Injection Moulding Process (Special Process) Validation Food Safety - ISO 22000, HACCP (21 CFR 120) 2
S The key differences in 510k types - Traditional vs. Abbreviated vs. Special US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 0
D I'm new in IMDS special using the IMDS application Manufacturing and Related Processes 8
S VW Special status condition IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
K Letter to file vs Special 510 for additional accessory in orthopaedic kit Other US Medical Device Regulations 1
P Special 510(k) - Modified Medical Device Description Other US Medical Device Regulations 8
P V&V for Special 510k 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 2
F CQI-23 Special Process Molding - Controls IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
B AS9100 - Are special process suppliers required to be NADCAP accredited? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 15
A Non-destructive testing methods are special processes? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 18
J NADCAP - Supplier Special Processes Certifications Manufacturing and Related Processes 1

Similar threads

Top Bottom