Start Up Scrap vs. ppm (Parts per Million) in an FMEA

M

mcgill51

#1
Hi All:
I really need help. We had our ts audit last week and the Auditor said we had to add the start up scrap calculated as a ppm into our Customer FMEA! Our process is an old one that requires 15 to 25 gates scrapped to warm up the MC! Is this true? I cannot find this anywhere!

Thank you so much for your help.

Jane
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
Hi All:
I really need help. We had our ts audit last week and the Auditor said we had to add the start up scrap calculated as a ppm into our Customer FMEA! Our process is an old one that requires 15 to 25 gates scrapped to warm up the MC! Is this true? I cannot find this anywhere!

Thank you so much for your help.

Jane
You need to ask the auditor for the source of the requirement, because it's sure not in the standard. If your auditor wrote this as a nonconformity it would be good if you could post it here, in full.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#4
In my mind, the only time set-up scrap is a failure mode in a FMEA is when your controls to keep that scrap from entering the good part stream are insufficient and it ends up getting shipped to the customer. That is a very real risk for some processes. If you have ever had a corrective action for a bad part sent to a customer as "set up parts shipped accidentally", then that is a perfect example. It would make the controls of setup scrap an important consideration.

This does not mean I agree that I agree with the auditor (especially in adding it to occurrences ppm), just trying to to be the devil's (auditor's?) advocate.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Hi All:
I really need help. We had our ts audit last week and the Auditor said we had to add the start up scrap calculated as a ppm into our Customer FMEA! Our process is an old one that requires 15 to 25 gates scrapped to warm up the MC! Is this true? I cannot find this anywhere!

Thank you so much for your help.

Jane
Jane,

Appeal this "nonconformity!" As Jim stated, there is no requirement in ISO/TS 16949:2009 that requires this. Now, if your company has included this practice in one of its documents, then it would be a nonconformity.

Companies often get in trouble for violating their own rules...;)

Stijloor.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#6
Appeal this "nonconformity!" As Jim stated, there is no requirement in ISO/TS 16949:2009 that requires this. Now, if your company has included this practice in one of its documents, then it would be a nonconformity.
...or if it was a CSR, or if it showed "ineffectiveness". But, still worth appealing to get the auditor's specifics.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
...or if it was a CSR, or if it showed "ineffectiveness". But, still worth appealing to get the auditor's specifics.
Based on the many posts about (3rd Party) audit nonconformities, I came to the conclusion that some of our Cove Members do not ask (hard) questions at the closing meeting. It is perfectly OK to ask for explanations and appropriate references to documented requirements. The auditor should encourage questions about audit findings and address them in a manner that makes sense to the audit client.

Stijloor.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
Based on the many posts about (3rd Party) audit nonconformities, I came to the conclusion that some of our Cove Members do not ask (hard) questions at the closing meeting. It is perfectly OK to ask for explanations and appropriate references to documented requirements. The auditor should encourage questions about audit findings and address them in a manner that makes sense to the audit client.

Stijloor.
This might not even have been a written NC. It might have been something the auditor suggested, or mentioned in passing. Sometimes auditees interpret those things as imperatives.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
This might not even have been a written NC. It might have been something the auditor suggested, or mentioned in passing. Sometimes auditees interpret those things as imperatives.
Very true! Too often, auditor comments are taken as the gospel...

Stijloor.
 
G

Geoff Withnell

#10
Hi All:
I really need help. We had our ts audit last week and the Auditor said we had to add the start up scrap calculated as a ppm into our Customer FMEA! Our process is an old one that requires 15 to 25 gates scrapped to warm up the MC! Is this true? I cannot find this anywhere!

Thank you so much for your help.

Jane
I certainly agree that it is not a requirement to add start up scrap into your ppm calculations. That said, I think it is a good idea to document in your FMEA and your Control Plan, how you keep start up scrap from entering the product stream. Also, remember, start up scrap is waste. Occasionally giving thought to how it could be reduced or eliminated is also a good idea.

Geoff Withnell
 
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