Still Confused About "Controlling Suppliers Records"

[Amexx]

A thread ago I asked a question for some practical examples of how to comply with the following from AS9100B "4.2.4, AS9100 Rev B. states that; "The documented procedure shall define the method for controlling records that are created by and/or retained by suppliers."

A response I received suggested making it a requirement in the P.O. However, after re-reading the requirement I'm not sure if by "supplier" they are talking about the company that is trying to be compliant with 4.2.4 or that company's suppliers.

I know this sounds confusing but I'm wondering if the authors used the word "suppliers" when they meant "organization" (Reference para 3. Terms and Definitions). Is it the intent of the standard that the "organization" define a method, including a way to verify, for controlling the records of its "suppliers?"

 

[Al Rosen]

A thread ago I asked a question for some practical examples of how to comply with the following from AS9100B "4.2.4, AS9100 Rev B. states that; "The documented procedure shall define the method for controlling records that are created by and/or retained by suppliers."

A response I received suggested making it a requirement in the P.O. However, after re-reading the requirement I'm not sure if by "supplier" they are talking about the company that is trying to be compliant with 4.2.4 or that company's suppliers.

I know this sounds confusing but I'm wondering if the authors used the word "suppliers" when they meant "organization" (Reference para 3. Terms and Definitions). Is it the intent of the standard that the "organization" define a method, including a way to verify, for controlling the records of its "suppliers?"

The doumented procedure for the organization is required by the first paragraph within 4.2.4(same as ISO 9001). The paragraph you are refering to adds a requirement for the organization's supplier's records.

 

[Sleepless]

We've implemented it by assuming that all supplier documents/processes have to be approved by us and our customer before they are allowed to be used. If they don't get approved, then the supplier has to use our documents/processes.

 

[M Caruso]

Sleepless, I believe you misunderstand what records are vs documents/processes as you describe in your last post. Although records are considered a document; Records are the evidence created by the internal processes showing that you meet the requirements of your processes. For example, a manufacturing lot card, test or inspection results from the product being supplied, test or inspection results from the materials used to make the product, purchase orders, sales orders, etc...

We have, like many of our customers, created a seperate document for distribution to our suppliers stating the flowed down general quality requirements that would be applicable to all our purchase orders. Within that document we have stated record retention requirements and a statement that we or our customers have the right to request copies of records at any time. Of course without an audit of the supplier there is no way to really determine if they really keep the records. Our customers audit us on their requirements, and we, although a smaller company, have in place a means to audit our suppliers when necessary. All of these are requirements of AS9100, it is just up to you to implement them effectively.

I hope this helps.