Struggling with keeping part-time internal auditors in our program

R

Rockanna

#11
Hiring Full Time Auditors

We have discussed this topic numerous times only to put it back down. Our auditors are volunteers. Some of them do a fantastic job; others do not. Our business has gotten so busy we don't have the spare time we use to have. However, management does not see this as a problem. They believe we all have 3-4 hours every other month to perform audits.

I do think part time auditors are better than hiring full time auditors. Auditors learn the business by going into other departments, seeing other's work load, etc...

However, when these auditors don't report to you you really don't have any say so if the audits are on time or not. It is always a struggle............ :bonk:
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#12
Rockanna said:
We have discussed this topic numerous times only to put it back down. Our auditors are volunteers. Some of them do a fantastic job; others do not. Our business has gotten so busy we don't have the spare time we use to have. However, management does not see this as a problem. They believe we all have 3-4 hours every other month to perform audits.

I do think part time auditors are better than hiring full time auditors. Auditors learn the business by going into other departments, seeing other's work load, etc...

However, when these auditors don't report to you you really don't have any say so if the audits are on time or not. It is always a struggle............ :bonk:
A caring and qualified internal auditor is not one who will become so acclimated to processes that he or she will audit the same things every time, and not break new ground lest he or she be viewed as looking for trouble.

I was such an auditor, hired full time and from the outside. I asked things like "How do you know who hasn't been trained?" when they showed me the rosters of employees attending training. They had never recently been confronted with the idea that there would be gaps.

The fact that management doesn't see internal auditing as a valued full time position hints to me that the position is more like a convenience. That problem may not be revealed for years, as I sensed after insiders had consistently and successfully been doing the show for a long time. Since the registrar asked the same questions, they only needed those same answers. Management plays the game on the basis that the registrar will not deviate from the comfortable norm.

Do you think this is happening with you?
 
R

rose24m03

#13
full time auditor

I disagree. I am a full time internal auditor. I am objective and independent from the processes I audit. The only areas I don't audit are the internal audit program and any processes my boss oversees (e.g. CAPA). For those, I trained our part-time auditors (who had been trained in the past before my time and who really enjoy auditing, in addition to their full time job) on regulations and audit process (refresher). I gave them examples of what questions to ask. By meeting 2-3 times the week before the audit and by providing feedback (objectively, on how they present the audit results, but not to tell them what they should put on the report and what not to put), the audits they conducted were great. They remain interested and volunteered to do 1 audit a year for us. Not bad. :applause:
 
K

Karen-Dawn

#14
Wow, so many different views and so many willing to **** management. Never was it said they wouldn't provide part time or a full time auditor(s). I am in fact a full time auditor/lead auditor. It is my program and I have full support. I was asking for opinions because I have always used part time auditors and I like the process, my auditors have liked the process and management has loved the results...no one has dropped out of the program without regretting it. Management and amyself are at a loss, we have and still are looking at hiring help for the auditors. I was asking the question because management suggested a sure solution would be to hire a full time auditing assistant and I expressed my preference to multiple sources and they asked me to bring them the pros and cons....

So maybe the real question should be what would you do?

Karen
 
Q

qualitymanager

#15
Keeping Internal Auditors interested

The biggest problem I had with part-time Internal Auditors (organisatoin's own) was the demand for their time by supervisors.

For the first year it was ok - they Auditors themselves were very enthusiastic and the supervisors were generous with the Auditors time.

In the third year, most of the Internal Auditors had more responsibility, and it was very difficult to get them released to do audits.

There was no compensation for auditors and soem lost interest in doing audits.

As a result, the organization had to train new auditors.

That being said, I think it is better to have internal auditors who work full-time in the organization - as someone said, they spread the gospel all the time. This is a good was to show the Registrar that the company is truly committed to continual improvement.

In the final analysis, it's up to the cost-benefit to tell you which way to go. Be sure to include the "hidden" costs of learning time & acclimitization for external auditors when developing the opportunity cost.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#16
It seems to me the real issue is the auditors currently in Karen-Dawn's program are under the gun to perform ALL their regular tasks in less time in order to devote time to the internal audit process. What I mean is:

If an employee normally turns out 10,000 widgets a week, that same employee is still expected (by any, or all of, management, supervisor, coworker, himself) to turn out 10,000 widgets a week PLUS perform whatever auditing assignment he is given. If the employee does NOT continue to do his share, then other employees may have to pick up the slack in order to meet the department production quota, creating resentment.

Ultimately, the question is one of management budgeting sufficient time and money for an auditing program, instead of trying to "shoe-horn" it in dribs and drabs.

It seems that Karen-Dawn' management is willing to pay a full-time person, so the question is not one of greedy management, but of lack of recognition (root cause?) of the true reason part-time auditors feel a desire to stay at the regular job full time. The pressure to stay on the job and continue to produce may be subtle or strong and overt.

The key to the root cause may be in the statement
Karen-Dawn said:
We have never mandated internal auditors, our program has been met through various volunteer in addition to your regular duties participants. However, we are going through a real growth/change right now and are not getting the volunteers needed because everyone's tasks are growing/changing.
The basic prejudice pervasive in many organizations is that Quality in general and auditing in particular are cost centers and do not contribute to productivity. Perhaps, in addition to the basics of auditing, ALL employees (and even management) may need to concentrate on the value of a continual improvement program that should be part and parcel of the internal auditing process.

Combining the concept of value to the organization and to the fellow workers together with overtly assuring each auditor he is not a "slacker" for taking time away from a production function to be an auditor, may go a long way toward reversing the trend of auditor drop out. The end result may be a new and stronger appreciation for the role of auditor.

:topic: I prefer internal auditors to be part-time on the auditing team and regular employees rather than outside "specialists" hired for the job. I do, however, recognize situations where outside auditors may be necessary, especially in unionized situations.

I do not like the idea of "volunteer" - in my own case, I assigned folks from multiple disciplines to be part of the auditing team. Over the course of time, everyone in my organization was given the experience of being on an auditing team, even including our full-time janitor and the two part-time receptionists who "work-shared" the full-time reception desk. The unintended benefit was that no one resented a visit from the audit team as an intrusion by the "Quality Qops" since he had already been part of such a team. The intended benefit was that everyone in the organization had a better understanding of the "big picture" of the organization. When we had visits from a customer's auditor or auditing team, I reveled in the looks on their faces when I would ask the receptionist to accompany them through the operation. I enjoyed it even more when they would comment afterward, "Wow! Your receptionist sure knows a lot about your company." I didn't like the part where I would staff the reception desk until the audit was done.

My suggestion to Karen-Dawn: stick to your guns about part-timers, but consider changing the volunteer aspect as part of discovering the root cause of defections from the audit team.
 
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