Supplier Audit Nonconformance: What if they adverse its certified QMS?

Sidney Vianna

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#11
What could be the behaviour of a second part auditor in case of Supplier audit, in case he/she notices a ncn vs Supplier QMS, already certified by a third part auditor?
...SNIP....
Could the supplier affirm that they have the certification in their hands and so the third part auditor was satisfied with the evidences in registration audit?
Thoughts???
This issue touches on the accountability aspect that I talk so much about.

If the customer relies on the certificate in question, as a component of their supplier monitoring process, the second party auditor (via the proper channels) MUST bring the concern up to the CB. If management system certificates are to be relied upon, are to add value to business stakeholders, are to provide confidence in a supplier's system robustness, etc., the supplier AND THEIR CB's must be kept accountable. Thus, the registrant's customer MUST communicate with the supplier CB and express their concern.

ISO 17021 has provisions for special audits, in cases an interested party is concerned about the appropriateness of a continuing certification.

CB's don't like when someone "questions" one of their certificates, but, if we are to be providers of confidence, rather than certificate-mills, we must take action on meaningful feedback.

The one thing that we need to be careful about is the fact that, sometimes, the second-party auditors don't have in-depth knowledge of standards and might be "uncomfortable" with something that is totally acceptable by the standard.
 
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adickerson

#12
Thus, the registrant's customer MUST communicate with the supplier CB and express their concern.
This is one of those high level quality decisions that require a large amount of experince and tact to handle correctly. I could quickly see myself making both the supplier and CB mad at me. That is fine, I don't mind being the bearer of bad news, but I would like to keep a strong positive relationship with my supply base. Having the CB launch a special audit at the suplier that could cost the supplier lots of CB audit time ($$$) may burn up a bunch of good will. Has any one actually reported a company to a CB and if so how did it go? Do CBs generally treat these things with care?
 

Sidney Vianna

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#13
Has any one actually reported a company to a CB and if so how did it go?
In the Aerospace ICOP Scheme, this happens somewhat constantly due to the feedback loop feature, made available via the OASIS database.
Do CBs generally treat these things with care?
Most serious CB's certainly treat this type of feedback seriously. Two things you must keep in mind:

  • Not all feedback will result in a special, short-notice audit; many times the feedback will be used as part of the input for the subsequent, upcoming audit, be it a surveillance or a re-certification audit.
  • Escalating the concern to the CB should never be the first action by the supplier's customer. As always, customers must try to resolve their concerns first with the supplier and elevate/escalate the issue, when and if they have "exhausted" the attempt to get satisfaction from the supplier.

Once again, in the AS9100 ICOP Scheme, a few OEM's perform validation audits, where they basically send auditors onto AS9100 certified suppliers to ascertain for themselves if the supplier has a conforming system or were awarded a certificate undeserving.

In the traditional accredited certification schemes, even ISO is willing to get involved with complaints. But they forewarn the complainants:
Before submitting a complaint, please make sure you have completed the following:
1) Officially complained to the certified company in question. The complaint should give all necessary information on the nature of the complaint.
2) If you are dissatisfied with the response from the certified organization you should make an official complaint to the certification body. The name of the certification body is obtainable from the certificate or alternatively can be obtained from the certified organization.
3) On receipt of an unsatisfactory response from the certification body you should contact the national accreditation body and make the complaint directly to them. The name of the national accreditation body can be obtained from www.iaf.nu. Click on the "IAF members" and then clink on "IAF MLA members". This contains a list of accreditation body members by economy. Select the one for your economy and obtain the contact details.
4) If you receive an unsatisfactory complaint from the national accreditation body you should then make your complaint to ISO by submitting the complaint on our web page or to IAF at www.iaf.nu.
 
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