Supplier completed CAR (Corrective Action Request) is unacceptable

M

michelle8075

#1
I guess I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on this before I called up the customer and rejected their CAR.
Here's the highlights of the CAR (by the way there were a number of spelling mistakes - not to say that I am not guilt of it from time to time. However, this was more than a few).

Issue : "Product" not operating properly.
Interim Containment Action: "Evaluate "product" upon receipt
Root Cause " Items on Product appear to be repositioned and creating a nonperformance condition"
Corrective Action: Continue to audit and inspect "product prior to shipment to customer".

I guess I was a little put off by the lack of effort and time it seems that this customer put into this corrective action. I also feel that the root cause and corrective action are lacking. No details have been stated, and I think the root cause can keep on going down to something more. I usually send them my 8D report, but was informed that they had their own. I guess how would you handle this one? Is this what everyone else is experiencing? Or am I over-reacting?
 
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F

fuzzy

#2
Customer or Supplier?

It seems that it might be a supplier to you and if that is true, from what you have detailed I would (and have) reject that reply and be specific in my reasons for doing so. Give me some dimensions and sampling results for "items appear to be repositioned". Are they to print or not? There's not time or space enough to comment on the corrective action...trying to inspect Quality in are they??? Good luck with them; have they been a "good" supplier before now or has this been an ongoing thing?:eek:
 
M

michelle8075

#3
fuzzy said:
It seems that it might be a supplier to you and if that is true, from what you have detailed I would (and have) reject that reply and be specific in my reasons for doing so. Give me some dimensions and sampling results for "items appear to be repositioned". Are they to print or not? There's not time or space enough to comment on the corrective action...trying to inspect Quality in are they??? Good luck with them; have they been a "good" supplier before now or has this been an ongoing thing?:eek:
They are actually a newer supplier to us. So, I haven't dealt much with them.
Some other details I need to know are "Was this a condition of a mfg error? if so, how is that being corrected" or "Is this a condition of the plant installing the product wrong? If so, what do they plan to do about it?"
 
M

michelle8075

#4
Also... I am just put off by the fact that this is the final CAR that I received after waiting for a month for them to respond.

Is this a common problem that other Quality professionals are facing? Do you continuously get incomplete CAR's that you have to reject?

I guess it just seems to me that some suppliers may find CAR's as a waste of time. When I get something like this I instantly think that the supplier lacks quality, lacks quality improvement techniques, and doesn't think that the customer is important enough to ensure that conforming material is sent to them, or in fact find the customer important enough to spend time to ensure that a proper CAR is performed.

I am just letting off steam....
 
R

ralphsulser

#5
I think you are right to demand a better answer for root cause and corrective/preventive actions. I would reject the submittal too. Hold their feet to the fire. Check with purchasing to see how bad you need them and are there alternates approved. Escalate your needs to their upper management and state your disatisfaction with the reply. Yes, a month is too long, especially for a superficial answer.
This could have a negative impact on your products with your customers.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#6
michelle8075 said:
I guess I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on this before I called up the customer and rejected their CAR.
Here's the highlights of the CAR (by the way there were a number of spelling mistakes - not to say that I am not guilt of it from time to time. However, this was more than a few).

Issue : "Product" not operating properly.
Interim Containment Action: "Evaluate "product" upon receipt
Root Cause " Items on Product appear to be repositioned and creating a nonperformance condition"
Corrective Action: Continue to audit and inspect "product prior to shipment to customer".
It's already been established that you meant "supplier" and not "customer," so...

What was the "issue"? Was "not operating properly" the way you described the complaint to the supplier? If so, you need to be more descriptive and cite the actual specifications involved. If not, then the supplier should quote your complaint directly.

"Evaluate product upon receipt" is fine, as far as it goes, but what was done after the evaluation? What were the findings? Was there product "in the pipeline" that might have been affected?

The "root cause" given isn't a root cause at all, it's a symptom, or set of symptoms. The question is, why were items "repositioned."

The corrective action doesn't help much either (what was actually done to correct the condition on the "bad" products?) and there's no mention of what might be done to prevent "items" from being "repositioned" in the future.

In short, what you've described is worse than useless, because it indicates that the supplier has made no effort whatsoever to understand the problem, correct in the nonconforming products, or prevent it from happening again. A promise of more inspection shouldn't be considered an acceptable answer until efforts at prevention have been exhausted.
 
M

michelle8075

#7
Jim Wynne said:
It's already been established that you meant "supplier" and not "customer," so....
Yes, I meant supplier... thanks!

Jim Wynne said:
What was the "issue"? Was "not operating properly" the way you described the complaint to the supplier? If so, you need to be more descriptive and cite the actual specifications involved. If not, then the supplier should quote your complaint directly.
They were given more information than just not operating properly. Our Project Manager who's plant this issue arose out of, gave them specifics... As to which line, which station, when it failed, and what the conditions were at the time.

Jim Wynne said:
"Evaluate product upon receipt" is fine, as far as it goes, but what was done after the evaluation? What were the findings? Was there product "in the pipeline" that might have been affected?
Yeah, I thought it was fine too. I was more concerned with the root cause and corrective action.

Glad to get everyone's opinions on this. I am happy to know that was I saw wrong with this CAR, was with others were seeing too. I just was appalled by the inital CAR they sent me that I was like "unbelievable"
Is this a common problem that other Quality professionals are facing? Do you continuously get incomplete CAR's that you have to reject?
 

harry

Super Moderator
#8
Sometimes we have to face reality. I have seen big MNC's not taking CARs issued by my clients seriously - just because my client is small and had no or not much choice than to buy from them.

At other times, it could be an issue of communication. Picking up the phone and speak to the person at the other end may solve the problem. Even having our QA personnels dropping by may not only solve the problem but building up good and fruitful rapport. I mention this because my interpretation of the reply for 'root cause' is that the goods could have been damaged while being transported (repositioned and creating a non performance condition). I come from a country where English is not the main language and I had often need to struggle to make sense out of written replies.
 
R

ralphsulser

#9
I will also agree that sometimes a visit works to establish intent plus clarify the expectations and communications.
 

CarolX

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#10
Michelle,

Could it be your supplier needs some training? If you are dealing with a small shop, they may not have anyone who is familiar with completing corrective actions.

Just thinking.

P.S. - I changed the title of this thread from "Customer" to "Supplier".
 
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