Supplier Denying FOD Nonconformance

[magneto259]

Hello All,

I am new to the supplier quality world and dealing with difficult suppliers has me tip toeing around while engaging in verbal judo with them. How would you guys deal with this scenario? We have a supplier that supplies complex machined parts. We received a lot of parts covered in FOD which is a clear violation of our cleanliness standard on the engineering drawing. Receiving inspection wrote them up, I processed the NCR and assigned responsibility to the supplier and initiated the corrective action. Their quality manager responded with he personally cleaned the parts prior to our source inspector buying off on them so there's no way the FOD got on the part in their facility. After talking to our onsite source inspector he noted he didn't see any FOD, but could have missed it and will be more diligent in the future. He did say, he performed the inspection approximately a month before we received the parts. I suspect they left the parts out for a unspecified amount of time, prior to packaging and the parts got contaminated. Now I have to try and prove that. I haven't told their quality manager I know the length of time between the source inspection and the receipt of the parts yet. I did ask them "What is your process for packaging after source inspection? Are they stored in a clean room/area prior to packaging?

Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[Mike S.]

Not an unusual scenario. I don't know the specifics, amount/type of FOD, etc. buts sometimes it just isn't clear when/where something happened. Did you send the supplier pictures as soon as you opened the boxes and saw the FOD? Is there a history of good deliveries (no FOD)?

Sometimes in a case like this I try to remember that the end goal isn't that I'm proven right, it's that the problem doesn't reoccur, and that sometimes there is no way to prove anything and only God knows what happened, and he ain't telling. I'll settle for supplier awareness and monitor for reoccurrence and close the issue.

 

[magneto259]

Hello Mike,
I appreciate your reply. Yes, we immediately took pictures to document the finding. We have had numerous issues with this particular supplier. I don't want to burn them at the stake, I just want them to acknowledge the issue and lets work together to make sure it doesn't happen again. I'm going to talk with the supplier later today. I like your suggestion to just "settle for supplier awareness and monitor for reoccurrence". I was thinking of something along those lines to get them on the issue but not hit their supplier scorecard. I appreciate your insight. Thanks

 

[optomist1]

I am likely parroting others above, pictures, pictures and or video clips...such evidence is tough to refute....especially with cantankerous suppliers...

hope this helps
Optomist1

 

[magneto259]

I am likely parroting others above, pictures, pictures and or video clips...such evidence is tough to refute....especially with cantankerous suppliers...

hope this helps
Optomist1

Well they have the pictures we took and still said nope, we didn't do that. The QA manager told me he personally cleaned and packed them. This is where the war of words started. It was a month between our source inspection to when we received them. That is a plenty of time to get covered in debris in a place that does machining. I appreciate your response!

 

[ScottK]

In the past I ran into a situation where the bags that some parts were packaged in came with FOD in them.
We had to change bag suppliers to one who would guarantee FOD free.

I'd ask the supplier and source inspector if FOD free packaging is being used.

 

[magneto259]

In the past I ran into a situation where the bags that some parts were packaged in came with FOD in them.
We had to change bag suppliers to one who would guarantee FOD free.

I'd ask the supplier and source inspector if FOD free packaging is being used.

The gap is on us, our source inspector looked at them then they got packaged. We only look at the machined part, not the packaging operation. So, from the inspection to when we receive them is a mystery. The onsite inspector said they were clean when he looked at them and the company claims since he signed off on them as good its on us at that point. I appreciate your insight.

 

[ScottK]

The gap is on us, our source inspector looked at them then they got packaged. We only look at the machined part, not the packaging operation. So, from the inspection to when we receive them is a mystery. The onsite inspector said they were clean when he looked at them and the company claims since he signed off on them as good its on us at that point. I appreciate your insight.

I would still disagree with that quality manager. They are still responsible for packaging unless your organization specifies the exact packaging material. How are the parts handled after this cleaning step and before they are packed?

 

[Kronos147]

Perhaps the two organizations could agree upon an additional source inspection of the packaging for the next few orders.

 

[Golfman25]

Hello Mike,
I appreciate your reply. Yes, we immediately took pictures to document the finding. We have had numerous issues with this particular supplier. I don't want to burn them at the stake, I just want them to acknowledge the issue and lets work together to make sure it doesn't happen again. I'm going to talk with the supplier later today. I like your suggestion to just "settle for supplier awareness and monitor for reoccurrence". I was thinking of something along those lines to get them on the issue but not hit their supplier scorecard. I appreciate your insight. Thanks

But you really aren't working "together", are you? Supplier says not us. Your onsite inspector says he didn't see anything. But yet your still trying to "pin" it on the supplier. How about a different tact? Work with them to monitor the parts from inspection, to packing, to shipping, to your place. It is likely nobody's "fault" but something that just isn't getting addressed during that chain of custody. Customers show us part all the time claiming we "sent them like that" when there is no freaking way we sent that part. It is very frustrating.