Supplier is denying visit request

#1
Greetings everyone. :bigwave: Long time follower, first time posting.

We are a rubber manufacturing facility compliant with IATF and ISO9001. We have many supplier/customer and customer/supplier/competitor relationships. We have a particular supplier who is also a direct competitor of ours on a different product line.

Last year, this supplier failed to meet our requested standards (high PPM and number of quality incidences) and was therefore placed on our supplier improvement list for 2018. So far, this supplier has been reluctant to provide any type of improvement plan. They also will not allow me onsite to visit with their quality group and view PFMEAs. Our internal rules specify that I must conduct a VDA 6.3 audit as validation of their improvement plan, but as of now, I do not see this happening.

I am asking for suggestions on how to deal with this scenario. I have already suggested to our purchasing group that we quit quoting new business with this vendor and look for alternative vendors for our current parts. Beyond that, is there anything else I can do to develop this vendor if they won't let me come near?
 
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Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Seems like you have only three options (until a diplomatic breakthrough is made):

1. Dont buy from them (seems this path you've already started)
2. Revisit your internal requirements re: visit
3. Revisit your internal requirements re: vendor acceptability requirements

It's always a razor edge when you buy from your competitor or customer...there aren't usually easy answers...

If you were my direct competitor for something, I wouldn't let you in my plant either...whether you are a customer or not. We'll do lunch together off site, but I won't show you how I make your product...its just business.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#3
Beyond that, is there anything else I can do to develop this vendor if they won't let me come near?
Very likely this supplier also has quality system certifications. You can try to engage with the supplier CB who is an interested party of their QMS and use the fact that the CB should be verifying that the supplier's QMS is effective in reacting to customer's feedback with special attention to situations where the certified system is allowing for quality escapes.

The Certification Bodies need to be accountable to the users of their certificates, but they will only do so, if you engage with them. Keep them accountable to the certificates they issue.

Check ISO 9001 - What does it mean in the Supply Chain?
 
#5
1. Where is the supplier and what is their local/corporate culture like?
2. Do you have a quality agreement in place, what does it say?
3. Are there significant costs involved with your visit, who would bear them?
4. When you speak of competing products, are they directly relevant to this issue or visit? (e.g. same or crossing reporting lines; confidentiality issues) (i.e. how close is the competing product business with your supplier's business)

We are in the rubber business (from the plantation through mid-stream - mostly supplying to tire manufacturers) and the medical glove production business. But the two businesses are separate until you reach a pretty high level (i.e. the quality team at the latex processing factory would never discuss a glove customer visit with the MD of our glove business. The facilities are physically separated geographically as well. The rubber business supplies natural rubber latex to our direct medical glove competitors.

So while we leverage our supply chain strength to support both businesses, the two sides of the business don't actively conspire against one or the other's customers - because that's really bad business. And after all, it's essentially a commodity apart from highly specialized uses.

We are also located in Thailand, where the is some resistance to factory visits from foreign customers due to language barriers, sometimes embarrassment if the factory isn't clean, along with the feelings of having a customer come down on us. The glove factory, OTOH, used to be a joint venture company with a foreigner, with a robust QMS and is comfortable with audits in all shapes, sizes, forms and depths. But the rubber processing side is really not used to this kind of detailed thing.

Fundamentally, I think the approach is critical if there are cultural barriers. If it is a small company and you are speaking with someone high up (and you are not high up) it may take the respect of a request from a very senior person (of the same or higher rank as whom you're talking to). Also, you may be talking to the wrong person who just doesn't have the authority or wherewithal to get anything done.

Just my two cents and hope you find a solution.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#7
<snip> The Certification Bodies need to be accountable to the users of their certificates <snip>
I agree, but... "Accountable" in what way? An insurance program? A warranty?

ISO 9001 registration isn't backed up by anything other than words, including (during the opening and closing meeting) words similar to: "Even if we do not (did not) find anything, this is just a sampling so there could very well be problems/non-conformances that we simply didn't find during the audit."

This is in part why I asked: What are your expectations of ISO 9001 now that it is 2018?
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
<snip> You can try to engage with the supplier CB who is an interested party of their QMS and use the fact that the CB should be verifying that the supplier's QMS is effective in reacting to customer's feedback with special attention to situations where the certified system is allowing for quality escapes. <snip>[/URL]
Although I understand where you're coming from (I think), if you did that to me, I'd dump you as a customer regardless of the outcome...in the form of hiking up your price to an untenable level.
You'd have to pay it since you have contractual commitments to meet, then you'd leave as quickly as possible, and I'd be better off on both fronts.

CB's accountable, fine.
Using the CB as a leverage weapon against me, good riddance to you.

**Please note that this is not toward Sidney...simply a possible level of response if you consider this approach**
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
Although I understand where you're coming from (I think), if you did that to me, I'd dump you as a customer regardless of the outcome...in the form of hiking up your price to an untenable level.
You'd have to pay it since you have contractual commitments to meet, then you'd leave as quickly as possible, and I'd be better off on both fronts.

CB's accountable, fine.
Using the CB as a leverage weapon against me, good riddance to you.

**Please note that this is not toward Sidney...simply a possible level of response if you consider this approach**
Well, yeah, I've encountered a number of suppliers who "might" have used this response, but they were all relatively small, closely held companies with owners who were paranoid and had lots of other issues which may have led to the complaints about quality, delivery, communication, etc.

Frankly, I wouldn't waste time trying to resolve the issue with THIS supplier (certainly not through a CB) unless it was a critical supplier or sole source. There is almost ALWAYS somebody willing to do business on your terms. Get looking NOW!
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
I've seen that response from Fortune 50 companies...FWIW...not to me, but to other large companies. That's how I got some of my current customers...
 
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