Search the Elsmar Cove!
**Search ALL of Elsmar.com** with DuckDuckGo Especially for content not in the forum
Such as files in the Cove "Members" Directory

Supplier Nonconformances - Key Points to ask a Metal Stamping Supplier

mbehmazia

Involved In Discussions
#1
Hello All,

I have a very general question asking for an overall 1,000 view and not technical at this point. I am going into a supplier tommorrow sort of blind to the fact that I only know two things,

1. We are all of a sudden having quality issues tooling related that are making bad stampings.

2. The Quality issues are resulting into multiple short shipments which is now very expensive and we are paying for them.

Besides taking a look at the approved PPAP, drawings, and related NCMR's, can anyone give me a fresh view on some key points I want to hit on or questions to ask?

thanks guys and gals,

Michael
 
L

lk2012

#2
hi Michael,
you might want to have a look at their processes, especially incoming goods and material handling. perhaps they've had a major workforce change (lots of people suddenly left to work for a bigger local company that opened next door and your supplier had to quickly take on new people and they may not be trained properly).
Also maintenance is a big deal, their tool might simply be nearing its use-by date and the supplier is making do with it and lowering their standards.
hope this helps
Lil
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#3
Hello All,

I have a very general question asking for an overall 1,000 view and not technical at this point. I am going into a supplier tommorrow sort of blind to the fact that I only know two things,

1. We are all of a sudden having quality issues tooling related that are making bad stampings.

2. The Quality issues are resulting into multiple short shipments which is now very expensive and we are paying for them.

Besides taking a look at the approved PPAP, drawings, and related NCMR's, can anyone give me a fresh view on some key points I want to hit on or questions to ask?

thanks guys and gals,

Michael
I you're sure that the problems are tooling-related, that should be an obvious focus. Does your company own the dies? Are they producing bad parts due to maintenance issues or has the tooling reached a point where rebuilding is necessary? Ask to see die maintenance records.

The stamper should be doing last-off evaluations after every production run, and the results should be informing the tool repair/maintenance process. We keep three types of samples for every part we run: An initial tool sample for new tools, which is kept until the die is obsolete or significant repairs have been done, and the first and last-off samples from every production run, which samples are discarded at the time of the next run.
 
P

PaulJSmith

#4
It seems to me that the "key points" are knowing what the issues are before you visit this supplier. If you're going in blind simply because you are having "problems," you may be wasting both your and your suppliers time. Have a purpose for your visit.

Once you have identified specific problems, ask them about their containment and RCA status with regards to each of the problems.

Then, ask them what you can do to help them improve.

That's where I'd start.
 

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
Good answers I think. I am no expert or even involved in stamping business, but I once got into a conversation with a guy in the stamping business and found it interesting. There can be so much stuff going on with stamping that it is not always a simple answer. There is tool ownership, tool maintenance / refurbishment cost allocations, the actual operation and how it is managed, etc. So much that could be going wrong that I reckon the best advice is to find out as much about what the company makes for you before you go. As mentioned look at past quality issues and their resolution (also what was actually reported back to you fromthe supplier). Plus anything related from the people involved from your company who are still in the company - not everything gets documented. See if there are common defects and causes across different parts, types of parts, etc. Also tools or tool beds I think they are called can be re-used with new inserts for similar parts once the original part has gone obsolete. Things like that prolong tool use and perhaps give problems. It does depend totally on what the issues you are actually encountering.
 

JLyt207

Involved In Discussions
#6
In addition to the other responses I would like to add more. Especially that it is critical that you know exactly what are the problems that caused the visit. However, without knowing anything about the product it is hard to give specific things to look for during your visit. I would have you remember one thing. You shouldn't rule out that the problem is with you (your company). Have you made your expectations clear? How much of it is in writing? Make sure you have followed your own procedures. (Are they good procedures?)
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Michael,

You are visiting to work with your supplier on their corrective action.

You need to make sure have have a clear understanding of the nature of the nonconformity and the extent of the nonconformity.

The problem solving team needs to understand and agree the nature of the problem to be solved.

At this stage it may not be reasonable to expect to determine the root causes of the nonconformity so they can be removed from your supplier's system and/or your system and/or maybe the customer's system.

But all parties need to be ready to act in finding the root causes and removing them from the relevant system or systems.

John
 
#8
(Thread drift warning)

The closest thing I have to experience in this field is a brief stint in a forging house - my first formal QC postion.

Among other parts, they made jet engine blades. When I trained they told me that the ovens preheating the material had a plus or minus 10 degrees F allowed as noted on the lot traveler. I was instructed that there was an additional informal plus or minus 10 degrees allowed on top of the formal tolerance.

We used optical temperature sensors to check the oven before stamping began. One day I found an oven that was so far over it's intended temperature that I couldn't ignore it. The operator told me I was full of it and showed me his two thermocouples that said it was just fine. I went and got the senior QC guy who was in working retirement and didn't care who told him what.

He brought another tool, confirmed my initial measurement, and last I saw an angry operator was unloading glowing material from the oven to send to the metallurgy lab for examination.

Two days later I was let go for "ineffective job performance". But I like to think that I may have prevented some airplanes from falling out of the sky.
 
Top Bottom