Supplier of my Supplier's Quality - Distributor is not ISO9001 certified

Q

QualityLearn

Gurus, Need your help.
My subcon is an ISO 9001 certified firms.
They are purchasing components based on the qualified manufacturers and part number list that my company provided. However, i have just found recently that this subcon is buying parts from unauthorized distributor of the supplier. This distributor is not an ISO certified organization, is my subcon commit any violation on element 7.4 of ISO 9001 such as purchasing?

If my subcon is ISO certified does it follows that they are bound by ISO to purchase parts only from an ISO firms also?
 

RoxaneB

Change Agent and Data Storyteller
Super Moderator
Re: Supplier of my Supplier's Quality

Gurus, Need your help.
My subcon is an ISO 9001 certified firms.
They are purchasing components based on the qualified manufacturers and part number list that my company provided. However, i have just found recently that this subcon is buying parts from unauthorized distributor of the supplier. This distributor is not an ISO certified organization, is my subcon commit any violation on element 7.4 of ISO 9001 such as purchasing?

If my subcon is ISO certified does it follows that they are bound by ISO to purchase parts only from an ISO firms also?

Welcome to the Cove, QualityLearn.

If your organization is ISO 9001 then you have a purchasing process including requirements on how you evaluate your suppliers' ability to consistently meet your organization's requirements, right? If your organization has said that your suppliers must be ISO 9001 registered, that's okay...it's not a rule, but many organizations have taken that route.

But your purchasing requirements do not necessarily apply to the subcontractor (i.e., supplier to your supplier) unless it is clearly stated in the purchasing contract between your organization and your direct supplier.

Now, your supplier is ISO 9001 registered, they, too, will have a purchasing process including how they evaluate their suppliers and what their requirements are. They are not required to purchase from ISO 9001 registered organizations unless their process states that.
 

harry

Trusted Information Resource
Re: Supplier of my Supplier's Quality

To add to Roxane's good reply, please also bear in mind that ISO Certification does not equate to good quality. Generally, when all things (metrics) are equal, then the ISO certified firm is given priority due to the existence of a Quality Management System.
 
Last edited:

RoxaneB

Change Agent and Data Storyteller
Super Moderator
Re: Supplier of my Supplier's Quality

To add to Roxane's good reply, please also bear in mind that ISO Certification does not equate to good quality. Generally, when all things (metrics) are equal, then the ISO certified firm is given priority due to the existence of a Quality Management System.

Yeah...I didn't want to go down that road this early on a Monday morning. :notme: We've had that discussion here in the Cove before about ISO 9001 registration and the level of quality provided. However, many organizations (my own included) often accept ISO 9001 registration as the criteria to make it onto an Approved Vendor List. Once on the list, however, their performance is what keeps 'em there. :cool:
 
A

Alan J - 2007

Re: Supplier of my Supplier's Quality

Just going a little further on what the others have stated I would add that if you have real concerns you could always audit your subcon to learn the real quality issues first hand.
 
Q

QualityLearn

Thank you very much.
Yes the audit should have save my organization from knowing that my subcon are buying product from unscrupolous suppliers. However, being an ISO certified subcon they should be purchasing only based on their approved vendor list.. this would be my next step..find out if the approved vendor list exists and if they have violated their own requirement.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Trusted Information Resource
However, being an ISO certified subcon they should be purchasing only based on their approved vendor list.. this would be my next step..find out if the approved vendor list exists and if they have violated their own requirement.

Just remember, before you go into an audit of your subcontractor, you need to get rid of any preconceived notions of what is required, unless it truly comes from the standard. At the risk of repeating advice already shared, there is NO requirement within the ISO 9001 standard that says that you must purchase only from ISO 9001 registered companies.

You mention unscrupulous....that kind of scares me about your frame of mind when looking into the situation. Now, mayber they are, maybe they are not. But, you will find the whole process easier if you do not project that kind of attitude when dealing with this subcontractor.:2cents:

BTW, welcome to the Cove!:bigwave:
 
A

Alan J - 2007

Now that sounds like very good advice to me!!

I think it depends on a number of things as to your reaction but keep it in proportion.

Are you buying paper clips or space suits? What’s the criticality here big or small?
Are you worrying from a certification point of view or output point of view?

Last point: I assume that others sell similar products for the same sort of money?

Well good luck anyway.
 

CarolX

Trusted Information Resource
Thank you very much.
Yes the audit should have save my organization from knowing that my subcon are buying product from unscrupolous suppliers. However, being an ISO certified subcon they should be purchasing only based on their approved vendor list.. this would be my next step..find out if the approved vendor list exists and if they have violated their own requirement.

Just to stir the pot up a little more - ISO 9001 does not require the use of an approved vendor list. The standard says an organization shall evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product to the requirements and that records of this evaluation shall be maintained.

Unless you have placed additional requirements on your supplier, do not expect them to have an approved supplier list.
 
However, i have just found recently that this subcon is buying parts from unauthorized distributor of the supplier. This distributor is not an ISO certified organization, is my subcon commit any violation on element 7.4 of ISO 9001 such as purchasing?
As already stated: No, not unless you have required them to do so and they have agreed to that, or their own procedures require it. Look at it this way: If there was such a requirement in the standard, just about all suppliers on earth would have to be registered...

Just to stir the pot up a little more - ISO 9001 does not require the use of an approved vendor list. The standard says an organization shall evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product to the requirements and that records of this evaluation shall be maintained.
We certainly don't have one per se. If you are able to select a supplier in our purchasing system, that supplier is approved. We block them if they are not.

Added later: I forgot to welcome you to the Cove... Welcome :bigwave:

/Claes
 
Top Bottom