-
--> Gary Larson (The Far side) has returned. <--
Supplier Quality Management System (QMS) Audit - Formal Documented QMS does not exist
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
Re: Supplier QMS Audit
It depends on what your product is and who the supplier is ? If this is one of the many suppliers in that commodity, search another one but if it is like a monopolistic supplier and you have no alternative but to take this supplier onboard, work with them for developing the qms.
It depends on what your product is and who the supplier is ? If this is one of the many suppliers in that commodity, search another one but if it is like a monopolistic supplier and you have no alternative but to take this supplier onboard, work with them for developing the qms.
Re: Supplier Quality Management System (QMS) Audit - Formal Documented QMS does not e
You can establish some criteria in advance with your potential supplier, before visiting them on their premises for a second party auidt.
You can send them a check list , requesting general info , among which the kind of certification they possess.
if you need other info, plas contact the covers
You can establish some criteria in advance with your potential supplier, before visiting them on their premises for a second party auidt.
You can send them a check list , requesting general info , among which the kind of certification they possess.
if you need other info, plas contact the covers
Re: Supplier Quality Management System (QMS) Audit - Formal Documented QMS does not e
It looks to me that your selection criteria for a potential supplier does not include being certified to a recognized QMS, typically the ISO9001.
So how can you plan an audit of QMS, when for sure you know he is yet to establish a formal documented QMS ?
You may have to approach with a process and production audit plan to check how his process can consistantly meet your parts quality and quantity requirements. Taking forward a supplier quality program, you can agree for a timeplan from the supplier to be certified to ISO9001 QMS. Further to that, it is your call to decide about you conducting a supplier QMS audit.
It looks to me that your selection criteria for a potential supplier does not include being certified to a recognized QMS, typically the ISO9001.
So how can you plan an audit of QMS, when for sure you know he is yet to establish a formal documented QMS ?
You may have to approach with a process and production audit plan to check how his process can consistantly meet your parts quality and quantity requirements. Taking forward a supplier quality program, you can agree for a timeplan from the supplier to be certified to ISO9001 QMS. Further to that, it is your call to decide about you conducting a supplier QMS audit.
Re: Supplier Quality Management System (QMS) Audit - Formal Documented QMS does not e
Just audit them against the clauses of the standard. They will have processes in place to do things like buying stuff and how they take on new work, it probably just won't be formally documented.
Of course there will be some gaps, especially when it comes to documented procedures and they probably won't do things like internal audits but they will have many informal systems in place.
Just audit them against the clauses of the standard. They will have processes in place to do things like buying stuff and how they take on new work, it probably just won't be formally documented.
Of course there will be some gaps, especially when it comes to documented procedures and they probably won't do things like internal audits but they will have many informal systems in place.
Re: Supplier Quality Management System (QMS) Audit - Formal Documented QMS does not e
We consciously use the term 'evaluation' rather than 'audit' for prospective suppliers. It's more of evaluating the capability of the Supplier fraternity to raise the bar to expected level.
Sometimes, we enjoy cost advantage in case of such 'up-gradable' Suppliers.
We consciously use the term 'evaluation' rather than 'audit' for prospective suppliers. It's more of evaluating the capability of the Supplier fraternity to raise the bar to expected level.
Sometimes, we enjoy cost advantage in case of such 'up-gradable' Suppliers.
J
Re: Supplier Quality Management System (QMS) Audit - Formal Documented QMS does not e
You absolutely should determine the scope of the audit, the procedure and the benchmark - ie, what you will audit against - before you go there.
It just isn't fair, let alone effective, to do an audit without that. I speak having seen the other side of such "audits" done on where no one was clear about what the audit was against, and the results were enormously time-wasting. For example, at one company I saw an audit report by some so-called 'auditors' which was almost unintelligible and I doubt its accuracy. It kept saying 'no quality manual exists' and virtually refused to look at anything else, giving ultimately a somewhat biassed and incorrect view of the operations there, which did have a number of controls built into the computer system, but which the auditors didn't appear to consider.
The suggestion to audit against the Standard's requirements is a sound one - it's a recognisable and respected benchmark. You could always leave out a clause or three if they aren't relevant. And yes, you could also call it an evaluation, which may go down better.
You absolutely should determine the scope of the audit, the procedure and the benchmark - ie, what you will audit against - before you go there.
It just isn't fair, let alone effective, to do an audit without that. I speak having seen the other side of such "audits" done on where no one was clear about what the audit was against, and the results were enormously time-wasting. For example, at one company I saw an audit report by some so-called 'auditors' which was almost unintelligible and I doubt its accuracy. It kept saying 'no quality manual exists' and virtually refused to look at anything else, giving ultimately a somewhat biassed and incorrect view of the operations there, which did have a number of controls built into the computer system, but which the auditors didn't appear to consider.
The suggestion to audit against the Standard's requirements is a sound one - it's a recognisable and respected benchmark. You could always leave out a clause or three if they aren't relevant. And yes, you could also call it an evaluation, which may go down better.
A
Re: Supplier Quality Management System (QMS) Audit - Formal Documented QMS does not e
We can audit them if this audit is agreed between you and your supplier and that it has been agreed prior.
You can agree with your supplier on the following clauses:
Non conformances procedure, corrective actions, purchasing, contract review and amendments, and whether they have certification place.
Make initial contact with them and even if you don't visit them, you can still send them self evaluation checklist.
We can audit them if this audit is agreed between you and your supplier and that it has been agreed prior.
You can agree with your supplier on the following clauses:
Non conformances procedure, corrective actions, purchasing, contract review and amendments, and whether they have certification place.
Make initial contact with them and even if you don't visit them, you can still send them self evaluation checklist.
Re: Supplier Quality Management System (QMS) Audit - Formal Documented QMS does not e
Unless you have some requirements from your customer or industry I urge you to focus on the processes and parts not the documents or documented procedures.
Are there current or similar processes capable, stable, in control and producing good parts? Do they have the staff to understand the processes and products? How do they let the process speak to them which will let them respond correctly to trends, variation etc.
Do they have means to manage the execptions and have they demonstrated responses to past exceptions?
Focus more on what they are doing. Otherwise you are selling yourself and your company short because of a non-valid reason.
You can sit in a conference room all day long with the best QMS ever drafted presented to you in paper format and never understand what the conditions of the products your potential supplier are making...
Unless you are buying a Quality Management System from them do not focus your audits or reviews or whatever you want to call them on the QMS.
Unless you have some requirements from your customer or industry I urge you to focus on the processes and parts not the documents or documented procedures.
Are there current or similar processes capable, stable, in control and producing good parts? Do they have the staff to understand the processes and products? How do they let the process speak to them which will let them respond correctly to trends, variation etc.
Do they have means to manage the execptions and have they demonstrated responses to past exceptions?
Focus more on what they are doing. Otherwise you are selling yourself and your company short because of a non-valid reason.
You can sit in a conference room all day long with the best QMS ever drafted presented to you in paper format and never understand what the conditions of the products your potential supplier are making...
Unless you are buying a Quality Management System from them do not focus your audits or reviews or whatever you want to call them on the QMS.
J
Re: Supplier Quality Management System (QMS) Audit - Formal Documented QMS does not e
You also need to review the requirements flown-down to your organization from your customer. They may have requirements for sub-tier suppliers that you may need to take into consideration. Often you may be required to use only sub-tier suppliers they have approved. If this is the case you will need to get your customer to approve them as a source, if not already approved by them.
You also need to review the requirements flown-down to your organization from your customer. They may have requirements for sub-tier suppliers that you may need to take into consideration. Often you may be required to use only sub-tier suppliers they have approved. If this is the case you will need to get your customer to approve them as a source, if not already approved by them.
