Supplier refusing to do full CA - claims they don't need to since they're ISO 9001

[Slickpick]

We had a product quality issue that our supplier acknowledged was their issue.

It took three months for our supplier to send us a half page word document (we requested a full 8D) that called out "human error" as the issue, and their actions consisted of "reviewing inspection criteria" with that individual.

Our team has attempted to obtain additional information (the 5 why, evidence of this failure mode in the FMEA, work instructions related to inspection, training records, etc.), however they claim they don't need to provide any information since they are "ISO 9001 certified" and that being certified "proves their system and process is compliant"...

Has anyone ever encountered a similar situation?

 

[Sidney Vianna]

It does not matter what the supplier states; what matters is how your organization reacts to a supplier that is, obviously and blatantly, playing games.

 

[Miner]

My philosophy has always been to make the supplier share in your pain such as making them come to your facility and sort the product themselves. The exact pain needs to be adapted to the situation but eventually they will start complying. If they don't, put them on a No Quote list and start replacing them as a supplier.

 

[Golfman25]

We had a product quality issue that our supplier acknowledged was their issue.

It took three months for our supplier to send us a half page word document (we requested a full 8D) that called out "human error" as the issue, and their actions consisted of "reviewing inspection criteria" with that individual.

Our team has attempted to obtain additional information (the 5 why, evidence of this failure mode in the FMEA, work instructions related to inspection, training records, etc.), however they claim they don't need to provide any information since they are "ISO 9001 certified" and that being certified "proves their system and process is compliant"...

Has anyone ever encountered a similar situation?

Might be helpful to provide a little context regarding the issue. Is it the "crime of the century" that's shutting you down or something relatively trivial? Is it repetitive or a single issue? Is a full 8D and all the stuff you're asking for truly required?

Nothing is more frustrating as a supplier than getting asked for 1,000 pages of stuff on a simple issue. Most Quality folks are just asking for the same thing that their procedure "requires" (the 8D), without putting any thought into the issue.

 

[jmech]

The ISO 9001 certification does not prove compliance - all it proves is that they passed at least one audit (which is only a snapshot based on a sample at the time of the audit). The product quality issue demonstrates that the process/system was not compliant when the product was produced.

There is no general obligation for a supplier to give you an 8D (unless you have it in your contract with them). Some suppliers might freely give it to you to keep you happy and demonstrate their commitment to quality. Others might view it as a waste of time, especially if they think it was a minor issue due to one individual's error and you are not a major customer.

If they don't voluntarily give it to you, then you have a few options:
- convince/coerce them to give it to you (i.e. explain how negatively it affected you and your concerns that it will happen again; express your hesitation to buy from them again if the issue is not addressed to your satisfaction),
- stop buying from them, or
- simply accept that you won't get your desired information and continue to buy from them (if this was only a minor issue, then this might be your best option)

 

[Bev D]

Yeah - that response is crap in so many ways. Of course their reliance on being ISO certified so they don’t have to share with you is just a lie.
Then the old “operator error - retrained ‘em” is a huge red flag by itself. But then they claim it’s an inspection escape. Inspection doesn’t create defects. They don’t address real cause. They don’t address how the inspection could miss the defect like sample size or MSA if it’s measurement or lighting and time constraints if visual…they have no idea how quality engineering works nor do they care.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

however they claim they don't need to provide any information since they are "ISO 9001 certified" and that being certified "proves their system and process is compliant"...

You can also remind them that, if they are truly compliant to 9001, they should be committed to customer satisfaction and have effective processes in place to communicate with customers, including the post delivery phase.

Further, you can make them aware that, if they are indeed certified to 9001, you as a stakeholder of that certification, can escalate the issue and engage with their certification body, in case you are not satisfied with their responses.

 

[Golfman25]

Yeah, we have no context of the problem, but let's get out the torches and pitch forks.

 

[ChrisM]

How well do you know the supplier in question, and how much confidence do you have that they will indeed have fixed the issue?
If it's trivial and you know them well, and there is no sign of any recurrence, maybe it was better that resource went into fixing the issue rather than providing you with an essay and 8D of what they did.
If however it is/was a serious issue and you don't know them well (e.g. nobody from your organization has visited the customer for a number of years) then maybe it's time to apply some pressure including a site visit by Commercial, Technical and Quality people.

 

[Randy]

Have you tried a phone call "What the 4ell is the deal?"