Support Process - Procedure or Control Plan or ???

S

SteelWoman

#1
We have a support process that grinds rolls for use on rolling mills. They are not a traditional machine process and under QS we had several written procedures that really just covered things like how to unchock a roll, safely moving a roll, identifying it as what kind of roll, etc. In transitioning to TS we are going through all our QS procedures and making calls about whether to keep them, merge, etc. My question here is this: Is there any place in TS that requires I have a control plan for such a process as this? I know it does require it for the traditional "machine processes" and we do have to have a PROCESS in place for this support process, but I'm not seeing anywhere that I have to keep EITHER procedures or create a control plan for a process like this.

We lean heavily on On-the-Job training to learn how to do a job, and I actually took these QS procedures down to the guys in the shop and asked them if they had ever - in their early learning days - leaned on these procedures as "work instructions" to learn how to do the job, or used them since as reference. The unanimous word was, "No." I believe they were written "pre-ME" just to cover some QS butt.

If I eliminate these completely, am I okay from a TS standpoint? There aren't any real "work instructions" or scheduling for this job - the rolls come to the roll shop when they are worn and taken off a mill, and their presence is the job for the day. OJT covers the "work instructions" for how to grind one.

Opinions?
 
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howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#2
IMO if the rolls can have an affect on products, then you need to consider including them in control plans.

7.3.3.2 says "The manufacturing process design output shall include... control plan..."
7.5.1.1 says "The control plan shall list the controls used for the manufacturing process control..."

Work instructions fall in the same category.
7.5.1.2 says "The organization shall prepare documented work instructions for all employees having responsibilities for the operation of processes that impact product quality."

So, you need to determine if the grinding process can have an effect on product quality. If so, they should be included in control plans and you need to have work instructions. What level of coverage you have in these documents is still up to you. Don't go overboard if it doesn't make sense.
 
J

Jeremy

#3
To fulfill the requirements of 4.1 c), e) & f), we heavily encourage our clients to have control plans for all COPs, MOPs and SOPs. This doesn't necessarily mean that you need to have a separate control plan for each process. You can define a single metric (output or process) for all non-manufacturing processes, and put all of these metrics aand their controls on a single control plan, just change the "Product" column to "Output" on this control plan.

Also realize that the thinking on control plans is undergoing a shift with the process approach model spelled out in TS/16949. With the greater emphasis placed on control of inputs (for prevention purposes), control plans need to encopass and include all quality-related inputs to a process. It sounds like the roller grinding process, besides being a support process, is also an input to your rolling mill process. As such you could devote one or more rows on your rolling mill control plan to your roller grinding input process.

Regards,

Jeremy Green
 
#4
SteelWoman said:
We have a support process that grinds rolls for use on rolling mills. They are not a traditional machine process and under QS we had several written procedures that really just covered things like how to unchock a roll, safely moving a roll, identifying it as what kind of roll, etc. In transitioning to TS we are going through all our QS procedures and making calls about whether to keep them, merge, etc. My question here is this: Is there any place in TS that requires I have a control plan for such a process as this?
I know it does require it for the traditional "machine processes" and we do have to have a PROCESS in place for this support process, but I'm not seeing anywhere that I have to keep EITHER procedures or create a control plan for a process like this. "

IMO, No. This is a maintanance activity and should be treated as such. Your support process would be Maintenence and yes it needs to be defined. Maintenance activities need to be on the maintenance schedule. If you want to make a control plan, do so, but keep it separate from the production part.


"We lean heavily on On-the-Job training to learn how to do a job, and I actually took these QS procedures down to the guys in the shop and asked them if they had ever - in their early learning days - leaned on these procedures as "work instructions" to learn how to do the job, or used them since as reference. The unanimous word was, "No." I believe they were written "pre-ME" just to cover some QS butt.
If I eliminate these completely, am I okay from a TS standpoint? There aren't any real "work instructions" or scheduling for this job - the rolls come to the roll shop when they are worn and taken off a mill, and their presence is the job for the day. OJT covers the "work instructions" for how to grind one."

Work instructions are required! If you have work instructions that you are not using, throw them away and develop some that can be used. Evidence of training is required.



Opinions?[/QUOTE
 
S

SteelWoman

#5
Jeremy, I disagree - I don't see anything in the standard to indicate any other than machine/production processes need to have control plans. We went down this route when we first started the transition process - tried to make control plans for every process and it quickly became evident we were trying real hard to ram a square peg into a round hole. Control plans we tried to develop for non-production processes ended up with more "not applicable" notations in columns than anything else. It was a waste and just didn't fit well or add any real value. For those processes we opted to keep at least a basic procedure. Which is probably what we'll end up doing with this roll grinding process, since in these non-production processes the written procedure is the closest we come to "work instructions."

We maintain training records of actually TESTING everyone on their procedures and control plans.
 
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